What is currently the main reason families die?

Arcurus · 2020-05-18 09:37:38

Just to get an impression.
What is currently the main reason families die?

Engine Griefing? Leader Griefing? Wild Animal Griefing? No female? No Rubber? No Farmer / Cook? People starve not knowing yum?

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 10:39:27

Lineages are doomed to die a priori, since an update is due out soon, and lineages don't survive updates, and can't restart after an update. Even if most of the immediate causes of death of lineages were not there, they would be die out anyways.

Arcurus · 2020-05-18 10:53:49

Spoonwood wrote:

Lineages are doomed to die a priori, since an update is due out soon, and lineages don't survive updates, and can't restart after an update. Even if most of the immediate causes of death of lineages were not there, they would be die out anyways.

did Jason say if he wants them to die out by design on an update so that they can start fresh? Also eve spawn seems to jump with an update.

Technically fixing it should not too difficult. one solution would be to allow people "incarnate" in the living people before the update. they would just saved and then spawn back once some one incarnates. or just spawn them as kind of eves again in this family depending on the number people the family had.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-18 10:55:36)

miskas · 2020-05-18 10:59:16

No female is one reason, We had a forced female mechanism but now it is removed, I think the only factors to decide where a bb will be born is Yum and Area ban. ( how long does the area ban last btw, 60 minutes or more? )

other reasons still apply but someone has to give us some stats on % of lineage death causes from the server http://publicdata.onehouronelife.com/pu … elife.com/
or from wondibles family tree.
https://wondible.com/ohol-family-trees/ … id=3004071

find the families that die out from
http://lineage.onehouronelife.com/serve … front_page
and open their full tree in wondibles map

PS: after a Map wipe ( happens in some Updates) the lineages could survive but it is unlikely as it is difficult for a lot of naked people to survive not because they become infertile or something. Right? (after a map wipe you dont die , just everything around disappears and reset back to the wilderness , your clothes and food included)

Last edited by miskas (2020-05-18 11:05:18)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 11:23:56

Arcurus wrote:

Spoonwood wrote:
Lineages are doomed to die a priori, since an update is due out soon, and lineages don't survive updates, and can't restart after an update. Even if most of the immediate causes of death of lineages were not there, they would be die out anyways.
did Jason say if he wants them to die out by design on an update so that they can start fresh? Also eve spawn seems to jump with an update.
Technically fixing it should not too difficult. one solution would be to allow people "incarnate" in the living people before the update. they would just saved and then spawn back once some one incarnates. or just spawn them as kind of eves again in this family depending on the number people the family had.

jasonrohrer wrote:

I appreciate the tenacity here, but I don't think this is a problem worth solving.
Any solution would be terribly complicated and bug prone, not to mention having weird side-effects and edge cases.
Again, a lineage surviving continuously is only meaningful because there was a continuous chain of people who all knew each other. Nothing is gained by faking it.

https://github.com/jasonrohrer/OneLife/issues/492

Of course the last part doesn't make any sense at all, since someone reincarnating in a lineage as an Eve knows their own self, and thus such reincarnation would still involve a chain of people who knew each other (though such would not be 'continuous' as there is nothing continuous at all in what happens in a discrete computer game).

Arcurus · 2020-05-18 12:44:32

Spoonwood wrote:

Of course the last part doesn't make any sense at all, since someone reincarnating in a lineage as an Eve knows their own self, and thus such reincarnation would still involve a chain of people who knew each other (though such would not be 'continuous' as there is nothing continuous at all in what happens in a discrete computer game).

Yes the argument sounds not logic to me. Of course an update is "distracting", but its kind of artificial ...
I can understand it from a design point to always reset everything every week, but i dont think its a good design point until i see more evidence / arguments for it.
Bringing back the family alive, dont think that it is much more complicated then spawn an kind of eve(s) in the same linage depending on how many people where alive before the update, its not an ideal solution but i think still better then artificially let the family die.

If the family should sustain out of people who play in the family, then the hole concept of incarnation would have to be reworked to incarnate in the same family and not discourage it. This would also reduce the inside traitors lot, give meaning to genes and allow some kind of identification with the family / competition between families.

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-18 12:55:07)

Coconut Fruit · 2020-05-18 13:52:24

If I was the developer, I think I would make it that when server gets reset, it would save everyone's position and age and food bar etc., and then after the reset they would still be alive but they wouldn't lose hunger bar until they connect again. Those who don't connect again would eventually die due to old age. This would allow to just reconnect soon after the server reset and continue living.

As for the main reason why families die out... It's hard to tell, it may be another reason in every case. Maybe if people cared more about their last words, ideally telling how is it going in their town, it could be easier to tell what happened in each case.

Last edited by Coconut Fruit (2020-05-18 13:53:18)

Lava · 2020-05-18 14:57:43

The lack of female babies is a big decider which is becoming increasingly important as the population dies out of ohol

minth · 2020-05-18 15:04:50

I usually witness big town die out because of no women. The reason for this is: there are low pop hour which very few players play the game. The game getting more boring, stressful and toxic. The number of players is halved compared to last year.
I found that newbies who eat all berries, carrots and do nothing much may faster the process of dying town but may not be the main reason for it. Newbies will get bore and actually will learn to do something.
Griefing also take a considerable participant of cause to dead towns. Especially at this moment, there are too many griefers, too many ways to grief too. I once being born at the edge of town by my mother who was hiding there from griefers. Once griefers lure bears to town and hid all bows. The most recent Twisted's video he has to deal with newbie grief. Even newbie found this game too boring to do anything but grief.

Last edited by minth (2020-05-18 15:06:27)

Arcurus · 2020-05-18 15:17:02

minth wrote:

... The most recent Twisted's video he has to deal with newbie grief. Even newbie found this game too boring to do anything but grief.

lol yea, the video was fun to watch Twisted stopping the griefer...
Griefer:"at least you will starve to death.." Twisted: "nop im yuming" the quotes are not 100% correct but something like this.

Wondered all the time why the griefer did not use a horse to put the engine away would have escaped 100 times, or was there any reason that i could not see?

I guess an experiences griefer is nearly not to stop, except maybe through property fences if he does not inherit them and if they are repaired with each generation, lot of effort and still a griefer can inherit...

Is the woman code changed back again to be pure random? Thout it encourages woman if there are too less?

Would be interesting if males could go to other famlies with females and there continue their linage....

DestinyCall · 2020-05-18 15:30:17

Lineages die out when they run out of people. This can happen due to griefing, bad RNG, over-population, lack of critical resources, excessive SIDS, and poor choices.

But I think the main cause of lineage death right now is Jason. Lineages die out earlier than they should as a direct result of design choices aimed at shortening lineage length and forcing reset. Long lineages are discouraged because once we reach the end of the tech tree, the game stagnates. The early game is about survival and building up your village.
It has a clear purpose and a defined goal. The late game struggles to find a new purpose or goal once raw survival has been achieved and core needs are met.

Jason's solution is to avoid the end-game by encouraging early lineage death. It keeps the game "fresh" by ensuring that we are always climbing upward without reaching the top of the mountain. You can't get bored if you always die before reaching the end.

minth · 2020-05-18 16:00:26

DestinyCall wrote:

Jason's solution is to avoid the end-game by encouraging early lineage death. It keeps the game "fresh" by ensuring that we are always climbing upward without reaching the top of the mountain. You can't get bored if you always die before reaching the end.

This solution seems like Jason sitting on top of the mountain and pushing us to the cliff so we can climb up to not get bore
Since water is limited, towns will die anyway. We will have to rebuild scratch, he just wants to make it faster.
Instead of more content, more thing to do like 2hol we got this :<

Last edited by minth (2020-05-18 16:01:04)

JonySky · 2020-05-18 16:18:29

minth wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:

Jason's solution is to avoid the end-game by encouraging early lineage death. It keeps the game "fresh" by ensuring that we are always climbing upward without reaching the top of the mountain. You can't get bored if you always die before reaching the end.
This solution seems like Jason sitting on top of the mountain and pushing us to the cliff so we can climb up to not get bore

and the sheeps keep climbing the mountain, over and over ...
frustrated, bored, angry ... keep climbing the mountain ...

I am surprised that the human being has not yet become extinct

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 16:49:34

Coconut Fruit wrote:

If I was the developer, I think I would make it that when server gets reset, it would save everyone's position and age and food bar etc., and then after the reset they would still be alive but they wouldn't lose hunger bar until they connect again. Those who don't connect again would eventually die due to old age. This would allow to just reconnect soon after the server reset and continue living.

No one is alive currently when the servers change. What you talk about would have to involve players getting removed from the server as soon as the update process starts.

pein · 2020-05-18 17:14:44

any source why you say the forced females does not apply?

towns die cause too many newbies
water runs out super fast, some people can't even use the cisterns
it's still a very common thing that fire goes out, the town is disorganized and people aren't able to make any other food than berries and eat up carrots, leave the rest and starve to death

most activities don't worth the work, but people keep playing the game the same way as before

yum is not fun in vanilla, overall food values is way too low, yum is way too high

its like two games in one: newbies are confused by the mechanics and they are useless, their activities are low efficiency
all the tedious grind is for veterans and they need to carry others
jasons view of what makes you a good player is a complete bullsnap

Arcurus · 2020-05-18 17:28:35

pein wrote:

any source why you say the forced females does not apply?
towns die cause too many newbies
water runs out super fast, some people can't even use the cisterns
it's still a very common thing that fire goes out, the town is disorganized and people aren't able to make any other food than berries and eat up carrots, leave the rest and starve to death
most activities don't worth the work, but people keep playing the game the same way as before
yum is not fun in vanilla, overall food values is way too low, yum is way too high
its like two games in one: newbies are confused by the mechanics and they are useless, their activities are low efficiency
all the tedious grind is for veterans and they need to carry others
jasons view of what makes you a good player is a complete bullsnap

I think Jasons goal with with food was to encourage that people create / eat different food. But the problem is the solution is the wrong one.

With Yum, you need to eat all kind of different foods in one life, always the same food chain will be the most efficient and also its boring to always follow the same food chain. On top of that the new players fully dont understand the world anymore. They come out of paradise in hell....

An solution would be to use something like seasonal food, the idea is kind similar to yum to eat different food, but you dont need to eat all the different food in one life, you need to eat what the season provides. So every food comes to use, but you dont need to run through the same thing all the time.

testo · 2020-05-18 17:30:20

DestinyCall wrote:

Lineages die out when they run out of people. This can happen due to griefing, bad RNG, over-population, lack of critical resources, excessive SIDS, and poor choices.
But I think the main cause of lineage death right now is Jason. Lineages die out earlier than they should as a direct result of design choices aimed at shortening lineage length and forcing reset. Long lineages are discouraged because once we reach the end of the tech tree, the game stagnates. The early game is about survival and building up your village.
It has a clear purpose and a defined goal. The late game struggles to find a new purpose or goal once raw survival has been achieved and core needs are met.
Jason's solution is to avoid the end-game by encouraging early lineage death. It keeps the game "fresh" by ensuring that we are always climbing upward without reaching the top of the mountain. You can't get bored if you always die before reaching the end.

Good summary

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 18:45:05

DestinyCall wrote:

Lineages die out when they run out of people. This can happen due to griefing, bad RNG, over-population, lack of critical resources, excessive SIDS, and poor choices.
But I think the main cause of lineage death right now is Jason. Lineages die out earlier than they should as a direct result of design choices aimed at shortening lineage length and forcing reset. Long lineages are discouraged because once we reach the end of the tech tree, the game stagnates. The early game is about survival and building up your village.
It has a clear purpose and a defined goal. The late game struggles to find a new purpose or goal once raw survival has been achieved and core needs are met.
Jason's solution is to avoid the end-game by encouraging early lineage death. It keeps the game "fresh" by ensuring that we are always climbing upward without reaching the top of the mountain. You can't get bored if you always die before reaching the end.

A game can only encourage so many things. The solution to endgame boredom lies in game structure that encourages players to play in different ways, or in other words to creatively take on their own projects, or play variants that they or someone else comes up with. The problem is that "everything runs out" discourages that, as well design that tries to rely on players doing things, because of necessity. Also, the discouragement of roleplay messes all that up, because such roleplay can keep things fresh. Lack of different modes also discourages variant play styles.

You read that right, "everything runs out" is a problem. Denial of such a problem also doesn't improve things.

Edit: I say that encouraging variant playstyles is the solution to lategame boredom on the basis of previous experience. I have more hours logged in civ III than any other game easy, because of the community at the forums over there that encourages variants such as playing for the hall of fame, game of the month competition, and dozens upon dozens of variants that players came up with. If I had just been playing a single mode version of civ III it would have gotten old much, much more quickly.

Last edited by Spoonwood (2020-05-18 18:51:53)

pein · 2020-05-18 19:14:47

yum was my idea, that's why I hat how it perverted into something like this

basically I had the idea from stronghold and tropico
in stronghold you could produce apple or cheese or both, maybe some grain, but that required a production line and quite a lot of space, which could lead to fires inside the castle and use up your population. the 4th was meant which you got by hunting, but you barely had any levels with a few stags or none at all, so either from start or from the late game you had to buy the meat.

now you had 4 options to food: half, normal, 2x or 4x ratios, they ate more but you gained a morale bonus for it, obviously, has a cap
now the bonus also was applied for each type of food you got. for 1 you get none, for 2 you had 4, for 3 you had 8? and for 4 you had 12?
since you were buying the meat, you had to actively make and fill extra granaries with it, and reducing the consumption overall, was good so you get the bonus longer, so a low food witth high variety was better than a normal with low variety, ofc high amount with high variety was better but unsustainable

Tropico had similar, it had food types, corn, papaya, pineapple, banana, fish, meat, milk then some processed like canned food from fish, meat, fruits, then juice and chocolate, the advanced ones didn't count as required, more like covering the other basic level ones
the same downside, more workers needed, more space needed, more pollution and less beauty, the upside was overall happiness, communist faction happiness, avoid starvation and droughts, increase fertility, obviously top cap maximum 100 but around 80 was good enough

now obviously you got online players, you don't need to simulate morale, maybe we could have negative morale to make garbage and dead bone disposal more important, maybe even some décor to increase fertility within range, but you can really simulate that

so I think the main idea is decent for yum, chaining the foods to get bonus

but the original problem was berry munching, somewhat fixed meta while having 30 foods to balance so that all of them is viable
that's kind of impossible, oxygen not included has like 12 and they can't balance it well, some of the later foods need a very specific requirement fulfilled so it's almost dead content

it was interesting to abuse the yum system once or twice, but people realized it does not worth spending a life just to eat, at least most of the smarter ones
but then this idiot playstyle emerged, where the selfish players abused summing for a personal bonus, even on the cost of wasting resources, and abused the fertility bonus with it, actions like walking 400 tiles to eat wild food in advanced cities or making one single special food for themselves
spending way too much time and disregarding all the city work that would be important long term

this is all due to not having a top cap which would mean any x of the 50 foods of what we got, instead of longest personal chain for yourself
ideally, you could make 10 or 15 foods for all the city and 4-5 types that would cover one or two more bonus, we would still be in a good shape with 1/3rd of the food types
also, there is no balance nI regards of cooked food vs raw food which is way simpler to make and still have a bonus

now there is a cap but it's inactive, but the latest changes made any single food very low efficiency so yum is kind of mandatory
I can't imagine anyone having fun keeping track of what they ate, it's not the end goal it's just a means to an end. forcing this for everyone is a bad design and without a zoom mod feature, I wouldn't be able to do it myself.
Also, it's quite a bad design saying that food is more important than anything else in the game, building or organizing or smithing, and gives a very bad time for those who like doing other types of activities. People who got the skill to gather and smith and advance in tech are important, and they would deserve to get enough varied food from the others, can't even compare how much more important is to get the resources and how easy it is to process them.

but hey, let's fuck up veterans with slots and races and nerfs, and let's promote the game for the useless streamers and make low brain capacity gameplay much more viable than it should be

Laskara · 2020-05-18 19:25:12

DestinyCall wrote:

excessive SIDS

This killed my eve's lineage last night, my last granddaughter got nothing but SIDS kids. SIDS is a menace to family lineage TBEH, but the mechanic isn't what's wrong it's stubborn players trying to get back to the same family every life

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 19:39:24

Laskara wrote:

DestinyCall wrote:
excessive SIDS

This killed my eve's lineage last night, my last granddaughter got nothing but SIDS kids. SIDS is a menace to family lineage TBEH, but the mechanic isn't what's wrong it's stubborn players trying to get back to the same family every life

No, the problem is that players can't choose to do such without /dieing. The players purchased the game/ability to play the game, not the designer.

tocal · 2020-05-18 19:48:30

TBF, not all the streamers are useless. Twisted actually got me into the game and I learned a lot about the game from watching his videos.

Arcurus · 2020-05-18 21:18:39

pein wrote:

yum was my idea, that's why I hat how it perverted into something like this
basically I had the idea from stronghold and tropico
in stronghold you could produce apple or cheese or both, maybe some grain, but that required a production line and quite a lot of space, which could lead to fires inside the castle and use up your population. the 4th was meant which you got by hunting, but you barely had any levels with a few stags or none at all, so either from start or from the late game you had to buy the meat.
...

lol pein, you really a nerd, in a nice way, always has the data en mass...

Fully agree with reworking the current yum, the intention is good, but it needs some rework.
Maybe just yum gives double the food count for the food, but then food count should not be that drastically reduced, maybe higher level food above raw food should never be reduced....

To not need all the time to count through the same yum chain i would suggest seasonal food which switches every years... for the early generations raw food seasons could be quite common, while for the later, they become less and less likely.

the current system with dropping food value fees also strange, especially for new players. one time a berry is 3 one time 1.

Better would be if there are more berries in the beginning but they would be harder to regrow, but this would then also need to be balanced for all what needs berries...

Last edited by Arcurus (2020-05-18 21:27:19)

pein · 2020-05-19 00:29:46

twisted is a golden egg for Jason, even if it's a goofball. If you played 100 hours and you still like him then it's quite upsetting, his generic gameplay and roleplay is quite boring. He still holds a grudge on me but doesn't even remember what he lied last time.

I think a higher food value and 2-3 chains of 10-15 would be okay, could have other rewards. Kinda unrealistic to have 60 bonus food and you don't have to eat 20 years at all cause you found an exotic onion.

Also would make more sense focusing on the overall variety in the city, not personal long chains
real variety would mean that the city can produce like 10 different foods constantly, not that you make 30 foods, but from that only 5 is constant, the rest is just 3-5 portions for some chosen people, I would be really curious how these yummer cities compare on resources used for their "effectiveness"

One Hour One Life Forums

#1 2020-05-18 09:37:38

What is currently the main reason families die?

#2 2020-05-18 10:39:27

Re: What is currently the main reason families die?

#3 2020-05-18 10:53:49

Re: What is currently the main reason families die?

#4 2020-05-18 10:59:16

Re: What is currently the main reason families die?

#5 2020-05-18 11:23:56

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#6 2020-05-18 12:44:32

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#7 2020-05-18 13:52:24

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#8 2020-05-18 14:57:43

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#9 2020-05-18 15:04:50

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#10 2020-05-18 15:17:02

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#11 2020-05-18 15:30:17

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#12 2020-05-18 16:00:26

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#13 2020-05-18 16:18:29

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#14 2020-05-18 16:49:34

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#15 2020-05-18 17:14:44

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#16 2020-05-18 17:28:35

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#17 2020-05-18 17:30:20

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#18 2020-05-18 18:45:05

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#19 2020-05-18 19:14:47

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#20 2020-05-18 19:25:12

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#21 2020-05-18 19:39:24

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#22 2020-05-18 19:48:30

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#23 2020-05-18 21:18:39

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#24 2020-05-19 00:29:46

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