Why I decide to quit this toxic game

minth · 2020-05-16 01:17:06

StrongForce wrote:

This forum is an essential part of the game.
Yes someone could compute all the mechanics together that is true.
If you are leader the only thing you have to do right is choose your heir. Make sure he/she does too and that it is a player who knows how to spot another good player.
If you are not in the mood of learning this stuff in game you can read all the posts in news from bottom to top.
Of course only the first post from Jason explaining the update

I'm a steam player and I found that it took me quite an effort to join discord server then ask how to get the secret key to the forum, after that reading dozen up updates and topics just to play and doing boring repetitively task every singer game of ohol.
You cant expect players know everything in the game especially in this game which constant update and very complex. Every task for learning like join the discord, forum, watch youtube, one tech require a lot of effort.
In don't starve you just need to know very basic stuff. You make mistakes and learn to play better while playing the game. This game is not, you don't want to make a mistake while playing the game. Making an engine consume a lot of water, if you not familiar with that you may consume double amount of water or more.

Blue tinker · 2020-05-18 06:40:17

minth wrote:

- There is no room for creativity. You have to play the game exactly as Jason want you to play. Even we have difference races the process is the same. The white is completely useless which is a very bad game design. Why do you make a useless race??

I agree with this point especially.

There is a certain meta in the game that dictates how you build, manage space etc. Like, all buildings are the same. They are connected wall-by-wall and in a rectangular shape. Noone even cares about painting adobe walls as it takes a lot of time and is inefficient. Every life becomes the same. 50% of the time the town has rubber problem, 10% of the time the town is a new eve camp and everything else is mostly keeping the town in its good state. I haven't seen engines in quite some time not to mention planes. Making higher tech just isn't good resource management, even the engines as they are now easily griefable. As far as I know they are THE easiest way to grief as for now in the game.

And, of course, I agree that the whites are mostly useless. Being born as a white feels almost like a punishmnent. Not quite but almost.

testo · 2020-05-18 07:35:27

Game is working as intended, it is just the playerbase delusion of something different. Get used to this.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 10:57:14

StrongForce wrote:

This forum is an essential part of the game.

The forum is outside of the game and not something anyone sees in game. The forum is not any part of the game, and thus cannot be an essential part of the game, since an essential part of something has to be a part of that same something.

DestinyCall · 2020-05-18 15:33:37

Spoonwood wrote:

StrongForce wrote:
This forum is an essential part of the game.
The forum is outside of the game and not something anyone sees in game. The forum is not any part of the game, and thus cannot be an essential part of the game, since an essential part of something has to be a part of that same something.

This forum is its own game.

Lava · 2020-05-18 17:08:02

Surprise he didn’t leave this toxic game lmao

testo · 2020-05-18 17:42:14

I´ve started to believe Ohol is the electronic game but also there is another metagame that includes discord and the forums, github and everything in beetween. Basically it is Jason playing us by changing the game as he pleases. So the last act of this game will be a summary of how the game developed in time and all the changes made which turned the game into an interesting experience and metagame that somehow became more important than survival of the families in the game. Sorry for the spoiler.

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 18:39:44

testo wrote:

So the last act of this game will be a summary of how the game developed in time and all the changes made which turned the game into an interesting experience and metagame that somehow became more important than survival of the families in the game.

If the game were an interesting experience, there would exist many more people playing it during quarantine, and these forums wouldn't have dozens of complaints. It wouldn't have so much red on the charts (decline in player numbers in comparison to the previous months). It would also have increased in player count during the last sale on Steam.

Gomez · 2020-05-18 18:43:37

You guys don't even know the pain of the early days....claiming vet status? Kindly go back to minecraft. This "toxic" element you refer to is called player versus player. Yes players with more knowledge can make a town have a real bad time.

Last edited by Gomez (2020-05-18 18:44:31)

Spoonwood · 2020-05-18 18:52:47

Gomez wrote:

You guys don't even know the pain of the early days....claiming vet status? Kindly go back to minecraft. This "toxic" element you refer to is called player versus player. Yes players with more knowledge can make a town have a real bad time.

Player vs. player implies that people compete for the same goal. The game doesn't involve such competition.

Laskara · 2020-05-18 19:15:54

Ok Gomez PVP implies people are battling it out for resources or clout or whatever, we have an entirely separate element of teams that are dedicated to ragegriefing because we're mad about the designer's attitude toward criticism. I say we, because I joined one for the rift event, which was so unsuccessful that initially it got nothing but protest and after a length of time Jason eventually had to walk it back and pretend it had always been meant to be temporary. There are other veterans on the board who have been here since before an actual PVP dynamic was introduced with warswords who became protest griefers and went on murder sprees to prove the existence of something called "the griefer dance", a pattern of constant movement that would allow a player to murder others with impunity while making themself essentially immune because of bad game design, which took much longer than it should have to get a response.

In OHOL specifically, and I have only ever seen it in OHOL, players get mad at the designer's out of game behavior and then terrorize *other players* with a completely out-of-game purpose, irritating the designer by chasing other players away from the game. Other players can't do much about them and there are no moderators. Other players become an object that a greifer is using to try to hurt the designer. At no point in minecraft history did a significant number of players team up to drive playerbase away from minecraft with the goal of upsetting Notch after Notch repeatedly handwaved criticism of broken elements in minecraft exploitable by griefers that made it an unpleasant experience more often than not. That actually is a unique toxic element to OHOL.

Last edited by Laskara (2020-05-18 19:18:30)

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-19 07:52:24

Laskara wrote:

Ok Gomez PVP implies people are battling it out for resources or clout or whatever, we have an entirely separate element of teams that are dedicated to ragegriefing because we're mad about the designer's attitude toward criticism. I say we, because I joined one for the rift event, which was so unsuccessful that initially it got nothing but protest and after a length of time Jason eventually had to walk it back and pretend it had always been meant to be temporary. There are other veterans on the board who have been here since before an actual PVP dynamic was introduced with warswords who became protest griefers and went on murder sprees to prove the existence of something called "the griefer dance", a pattern of constant movement that would allow a player to murder others with impunity while making themself essentially immune because of bad game design, which took much longer than it should have to get a response.
In OHOL specifically, and I have only ever seen it in OHOL, players get mad at the designer's out of game behavior and then terrorize *other players* with a completely out-of-game purpose, irritating the designer by chasing other players away from the game. Other players can't do much about them and there are no moderators. Other players become an object that a greifer is using to try to hurt the designer. At no point in minecraft history did a significant number of players team up to drive playerbase away from minecraft with the goal of upsetting Notch after Notch repeatedly handwaved criticism of broken elements in minecraft exploitable by griefers that made it an unpleasant experience more often than not. That actually is a unique toxic element to OHOL.

Laskara, because its a form of protest, Jason responds to action, not words. Thats why its so easy for him to dismiss everything in the fourms as "bad ideas" cause its all bark no bite. I mean sure people get riled up but fourm posts dont matter to him at the end of the day. Only when people started actively doing exploits and organizing griefs did he ever REALLY listen.

This is our way of saying "we dont like what your doing and we want it to stop."

The "what your doing" part in reference to the lack of content in the past several updates

Last edited by Crumpaloo (2020-05-19 07:53:30)

Ilka · 2020-05-19 08:30:00

For starters - I haven't been playing OHOL for a month, for since hell Eve. At one point, the game began to associate for me with strong negative feelings.
Only.
Survival at the expense of others is not a game for me. Playing consisting of continuous food and producing food is simply boring.

What Crumpaloo wrote is true. Jason only reacts to action, so complaining doesn't change anything.
The problem is that players complain but then adapt to Jason's stupid and harmful ideas.

Have you ever thought about players rebellion?
If all the veterans refrain from playing for a week, how will Jason react?
Maybe Jason is a deity of this world, but you can also rebel against God.
Wouldn't that be an interesting experiment. I'm just throwing an idea.

And I'm coming back to my town in 2HOL.

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-19 09:17:32

Ilka wrote:

For starters - I haven't been playing OHOL for a month, for since hell Eve. At one point, the game began to associate for me with strong negative feelings.
Only.
Survival at the expense of others is not a game for me. Playing consisting of continuous food and producing food is simply boring.
What Crumpaloo wrote is true. Jason only reacts to action, so complaining doesn't change anything.
The problem is that players complain but then adapt to Jason's stupid and harmful ideas.
Have you ever thought about players rebellion?
If all the veterans refrain from playing for a week, how will Jason react?
Maybe Jason is a deity of this world, but you can also rebel against God.
Wouldn't that be an interesting experiment. I'm just throwing an idea.
And I'm coming back to my town in 2HOL.

Honestly not a bad idea, even if for a day no vets to cater to new players would have a huge impact on the game.

DestinyCall · 2020-05-19 14:54:18

Crumpaloo wrote:

Honestly not a bad idea, even if for a day no vets to cater to new players would have a huge impact on the game.

Considering how much this game relies on experienced players who understand its arcane and convoluted systems, I think OHOL without vets would be completely unplayable. Nobody to gather iron. Nobody to upgrade the wells. Nobody to harvest oil. Nobody to organize or lead the town. Towns would collapse over and over, unable to sustain themselves because they have no water/soil/iron to maintain the massive berry farms.

The only thing that would save the noobs is that the early game is one part of OHOL that is relatively intuitive and fun. So they would die repeatedly, but eventually new players would discover OneTech and start to work out how to survive longer.

Last edited by DestinyCall (2020-05-19 17:37:28)

Gomez · 2020-05-19 17:18:10

Lets bring back the giant berri plantations and take knives away from everyone so we can play berri field bad bois. LMFAO Destiny too funny.

antking:]# · 2020-05-19 17:33:07

DestinyCall wrote:

Considering how much this game relies on experienced players who understand its arcane and convoluted systems,
I think OHOL without vets would be completely unplayable. Nobody to gather iron. Nobody to upgrade the wells. Nobody to harvest oil. Nobody to organize or lead the town. Towns would collapse over and over, unable to sustain themselves because they have no water/soil/iron to maintain the massive berry farms.
The only thing that would save the noobs is that the early game is one part of OHOL that is relatively intuitive and fun. So they would die repeatedly, but eventually new players would discover OneTech and start to work out how to survive longer.

You have a point Destiny, new players wouldn't survive with vets, vets are so much better because they were here for all the updates, and whey have been learning the game as it grew unlike new players who every update have more and more to learn and understand all at once, so it becomes increasingly difficult to learn everything. It is also helped that new players have to get coddled, OHOL is not a game where you can throw a bb out into the wild and have them learn, OHOL is a hard game and because of that vets need to teach new players, but that results in a coddling, where new players learn limited knowledge from vets in game (hard to teach in game) instead of trying, and experimenting and learning on their own.

and that without vets new players will just be stuck at berry faze as it is the simplest crop to understand, and eventually a few of those new players will become the new vets and learn the secrets of corn

testo · 2020-05-19 19:11:07

Spoonwood wrote:

testo wrote:
So the last act of this game will be a summary of how the game developed in time and all the changes made which turned the game into an interesting experience and metagame that somehow became more important than survival of the families in the game.
If the game were an interesting experience, there would exist many more people playing it during quarantine, and these forums wouldn't have dozens of complaints. It wouldn't have so much red on the charts (decline in player numbers in comparison to the previous months). It would also have increased in player count during the last sale on Steam.

My bad, I failed to express my personal slight touch of irony, doubt and dissapointment with the phrase ...turned the game into an "interesting experience"...

Brans · 2020-05-21 08:13:10

I agree with almost all of you, and I think I'm out too.

The game is too difficult for new players to get a hang of, and vets (who could keep a town running) are neutered by all the updates (biome limits, tool slots, iron nerf, homelands, even the all-important genetic score). These updates also make it easier for griefers to target towns. At least in the old days, you could run away and settle somewhere else. There were bell towns full of technology and people working together.

Meanwhile, I just played a life in which my whole family was murdered so someone could steal all of our kerosene. Yay! Not a waste of an hour at all. *sarcasm*

Remember when everyone lived in the desert? It didn't make sense, but I actually miss that now.

Also, I'm not unconvinced that Bobo actually IS Jason. The game itself makes me feel like I'm being punked.

JonySky · 2020-05-21 08:54:56

OHOL needs a minimum of several players to continue working ... curiously the absurd and forced mechanics that Jason has implemented do not support a reduction of players

I explain:

If we need 4 families obligatorily (due to race limitations) and each family needs at least 2 or 3 children (to follow the lineages) we already have at least 12 players

But those 3 children in each family must do essential tasks like getting iron, growing and getting water
If they perform other tasks the city will die.

all this without counting SSIDs, cities without girls, killers, novice players or wild animals

We currently have an average of 47 players, but we have 26 player spikes (spread across multiple servers)

either this game changes radically or in a few months we can say goodbye to continue playing OHOL

Last edited by JonySky (2020-05-21 08:56:44)

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-21 08:59:02

JonySky wrote:

OHOL needs a minimum of several players to continue working ... curiously the absurd and forced mechanics that Jason has implemented do not support a reduction of players
I explain:
If we need 4 families obligatorily (due to race limitations) and each family needs at least 2 or 3 children (to follow the lineages) we already have at least 12 players
But those 3 children in each family must do essential tasks like getting iron, growing and getting water
If they perform other tasks the city will die.
all this without counting SSIDs, cities without girls, killers, novice players or wild animals
We currently have an average of 47 players, but we have 26 player spikes (spread across multiple servers)
either this game changes radically or in a few months we can say goodbye to continue playing OHOL

Curses are killing this game, imagine being a new player who has no tutorials, no help, no idea how to play this game, you cant do anything, and that creates frustration and bordem, which then turns to griefing. Curses ban people for 30 days, if you told me a game i had no idea to play just banned me for 30 days id refund it and never play it again.

JonySky · 2020-05-21 09:13:15

Crumpaloo wrote:

JonySky wrote:
OHOL needs a minimum of several players to continue working ... curiously the absurd and forced mechanics that Jason has implemented do not support a reduction of players
I explain:
If we need 4 families obligatorily (due to race limitations) and each family needs at least 2 or 3 children (to follow the lineages) we already have at least 12 players
But those 3 children in each family must do essential tasks like getting iron, growing and getting water
If they perform other tasks the city will die.
all this without counting SSIDs, cities without girls, killers, novice players or wild animals
We currently have an average of 47 players, but we have 26 player spikes (spread across multiple servers)
either this game changes radically or in a few months we can say goodbye to continue playing OHOL
Curses are killing this game, imagine being a new player who has no tutorials, no help, no idea how to play this game, you cant do anything, and that creates frustration and bordem, which then turns to griefing. Curses ban people for 30 days, if you told me a game i had no idea to play just banned me for 30 days id refund it and never play it again.

true!
I have not thought about the curses!
The frustration of new players is evident when in the Steam sales this game got an average of 75 players and 6 months later we have 47 ... nobody wants to play a boring and frustrating game

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-21 09:29:44

JonySky wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
JonySky wrote:
OHOL needs a minimum of several players to continue working ... curiously the absurd and forced mechanics that Jason has implemented do not support a reduction of players
I explain:
If we need 4 families obligatorily (due to race limitations) and each family needs at least 2 or 3 children (to follow the lineages) we already have at least 12 players
But those 3 children in each family must do essential tasks like getting iron, growing and getting water
If they perform other tasks the city will die.
all this without counting SSIDs, cities without girls, killers, novice players or wild animals
We currently have an average of 47 players, but we have 26 player spikes (spread across multiple servers)
either this game changes radically or in a few months we can say goodbye to continue playing OHOL
Curses are killing this game, imagine being a new player who has no tutorials, no help, no idea how to play this game, you cant do anything, and that creates frustration and bordem, which then turns to griefing. Curses ban people for 30 days, if you told me a game i had no idea to play just banned me for 30 days id refund it and never play it again.

true!
I have not thought about the curses!
The frustration of new players is evident when in the Steam sales this game got an average of 75 players and 6 months later we have 47 ... nobody wants to play a boring and frustrating game

The game is purposefully un-intuitive to encourage teaching that isn't always available. As such if new players cant learn how to do anything in-game whats the point of playing it in the first place?

For those about to say "just go on onetech" you dont see RainbowSixSeige requiring players to go to a external website to know how the fundamentals of their game work.
All that does is push away casual players who are the main percentage of the current player-base.

JonySky · 2020-05-21 10:04:52

Crumpaloo wrote:

JonySky wrote:
Crumpaloo wrote:
Curses are killing this game, imagine being a new player who has no tutorials, no help, no idea how to play this game, you cant do anything, and that creates frustration and bordem, which then turns to griefing. Curses ban people for 30 days, if you told me a game i had no idea to play just banned me for 30 days id refund it and never play it again.

true!
I have not thought about the curses!
The frustration of new players is evident when in the Steam sales this game got an average of 75 players and 6 months later we have 47 ... nobody wants to play a boring and frustrating game
The game is purposefully un-intuitive to encourage teaching that isn't always available. As such if new players cant learn how to do anything in-game whats the point of playing it in the first place?
For those about to say "just go on onetech" you dont see RainbowSixSeige requiring players to go to a external website to know how the fundamentals of their game work.
All that does is push away casual players who are the main percentage of the current player-base.

ehhh but don´t worry... Coming soon: more loose speech character limits

Crumpaloo · 2020-05-21 10:32:03

JonySky wrote:

Crumpaloo wrote:
JonySky wrote:

true!
I have not thought about the curses!
The frustration of new players is evident when in the Steam sales this game got an average of 75 players and 6 months later we have 47 ... nobody wants to play a boring and frustrating game
The game is purposefully un-intuitive to encourage teaching that isn't always available. As such if new players cant learn how to do anything in-game whats the point of playing it in the first place?
For those about to say "just go on onetech" you dont see RainbowSixSeige requiring players to go to a external website to know how the fundamentals of their game work.
All that does is push away casual players who are the main percentage of the current player-base.

ehhh but don´t worry... Coming soon: more loose speech character limits

Sad part is if Jason just sacraficed parts of his vision to make the game work we would have double the playerbase, maybe even 4 times.

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#26 2020-05-16 01:17:06

Re: Why I decide to quit this toxic game

#27 2020-05-18 06:40:17

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#28 2020-05-18 07:35:27

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#29 2020-05-18 10:57:14

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#33 2020-05-18 18:39:44

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#34 2020-05-18 18:43:37

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#35 2020-05-18 18:52:47

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#36 2020-05-18 19:15:54

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#37 2020-05-19 07:52:24

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#38 2020-05-19 08:30:00

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#39 2020-05-19 09:17:32

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#40 2020-05-19 14:54:18

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#41 2020-05-19 17:18:10

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#42 2020-05-19 17:33:07

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#43 2020-05-19 19:11:07

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#44 2020-05-21 08:13:10

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#45 2020-05-21 08:54:56

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#46 2020-05-21 08:59:02

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