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a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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#1 Re: Main Forum » For Kit, the person who taught me to make a feather hat. » 2021-07-03 13:19:45
Lastly
You mentioned hardly being able to buy bread. Have you considered making your own bread? If you are lacking hobbies, bread making could be a new one for you. Processed foods are always more expensive than homemade ones. I'll use this photo below to elaborate what I mean;On the left I have the ingredients I would need to make the product on the right.
Buying the product of the right I would spend $1.74 per pound. If you purchased the individual ingredients (costing $6.18) you could easily make 5 loaves of bread and still have half of your yeast left over. This would put the bread you made at $1.23 per pound... cheaper and you have left over product to use for the future.
I understand you might not have the same price for groceries or even the same currency as I do but use this as an example of how to processing your own foods can save money.
Time is money. Have you calculated that into the equation? Least time you need to make bread is an hour of spare time. Even more when we include cleanup.
Power for electric stove in expensive in most of the world. Natural gass is not free eighter. How are you going to bake the bread?
What about dishes used and their cleaning? What about the cost of water both for preparing bread but mostly for cleaning everything after? What about dish soap and cleaning utensils?
From monetary standpoint - even if you ommit half of those things - its cheaper to buy mass produced bread than make it on your own in most of the modern world. Mass produced goods can cut corners, negotiate better pricess for mass quantities and save lots on "side costs" just because of sheer volume of product they prepare.
Its the same with home cooking. In developed countries it should be better to eat out / buy prepared meals than home cook. Both financially and ecologically - because of volume production.
Natural water gathering is when you collect rainwater. This can be done even in a city environment. Do you have a fire escape or a window that you could hang a bucket from? You were worried about the water quality. Use 1/8 teaspoon of bleach per gallon of water to keep your natural water cleaner.
Just so you know: Natural water gathering is... illegal or taxed in a some countries as "you're stealing from limited natural circulation". In my country we're taxed based on the ammount of land you cover without direct drainage to the ground. And I mean - direct. Roof that drains to the side? Taxed. Paved piece of plot with drain ditches? Taxed.
Also... Bleach is expensive and rather dangerous.
Don't think collecting natural water is a possibility? What about public water? You mentioned living in a city. Could you not find a public drinking fountain to fill up a couple of gallon jugs at, or even a public restroom. Two gallons of water can fit in a backpack pretty discreetly. How would someone know you weren't collecting drinking water for a long walk?
Straight up illegal. Drinking fountain? Whats that? Water is precious and limited. Why would someone do something like that? Haven't you heared about droughts? Don't waste water like that!
Public restrooms in europe are... not free. Most of the time you have to pay to use them.
"can fit in a backpack pretty discreetly". Are you trying to make that poor person steal?
Water is expensive and precious. Try to preach those wierd points to some people and you might end up in a very very bad spot.
Feel like your post was writen from a point of a lot of privilage Lizzee.
#2 Re: Main Forum » Where is Jason » 2021-07-03 13:10:00
When Jason says "so we're getting close!" what period of time do you refer to?
6 months?
1 year?
3 years?
never?
It's Jasons time. A day like a thousand years and the other way around. Its almost like Elon time. Basically you never know. Expect the unexpected. Be prepared for never only to be positively surprised when it finally happens.
#3 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion, Alternative to Cursing » 2021-06-21 21:08:42
I wish I could have my thoughts so well organized and put in words as Dodge. Well said mate. Well said.
#4 Re: Main Forum » Suggestion, Alternative to Cursing » 2021-06-21 19:31:25
Curse system is in the game exactly because of suggestions like that. When choosing a system to respond to people requests about protecting themselves from "unwanted" people Jason evaluated different options and went with curse system.
Requirement for any user input - as in moderators - was a big no-no. Jason didn't want game operations to depend on additional human input. People loose interest, people move on, people are prone to bias, people are the biggest weak point. OHOL was supposed to be ran with full features even after Jason himself left the game and moved on. Having human moderators would also hit one of Jasons big points - its "his game" and his the sole person responsible for that. Its his marvel. Any interaction from other people that might make them take credit for any part of the game - be it design, production or upkeep - is a big no-no again.
On the other hand there is point of griefing and if it even should be moderated.
A lof of OHOL is about living unique and meaningfull experience of a limited time life where everything is sparse and you need to work with people to survive. Game was designed around drama. Food ran out. You got sick or killed by a wild animal. Wood or other resource became sparse. OR you got killed or stolen from. Or some crazy person decided to ruin your yard that was keeping you alive.
The point is: Griefing is not bad on its own. Griefing brings drama and should keep you engaged, make you worry about the future and your souroundings. Human interactions to detect and deal with griefers are also bringing drama. Was this person really going to do something stupid? Did killing him really save us or am I just a terrible person? Will others understand or will I be next on the chopping block because I look like a murder hobo now? Or on the other hand - we should have seen the signs faster and got rid of that person!
Sadly - players didn't rise to the challenge and instead of trying to solve problems themselves cried for "system" to deal with it for them. After really long time and plenty of discusions - curse system was born. System that puts the power in hands of the players themselves and doesn't require input from unrelated humans (moderators).
One curse is the same as any other, meaning that players are given free reign to curse those not only for griefing, but for not conforming to their playstyle which they deem most beneficial for their tribe's survival.
^
This. This is exatly the point of entire cursing system and brings drama as well. Should people really waste their curses for slight things like uncompatibile playstyle? I don't think so. It sounds dumb because those people take the tool they have to deal with bigger problems out of their hands. But thats their own decision. Power in the hands of people. Don't blame the tool. Blame whoever is using it for using it incorrectly. And blame the idiots who can't think ahead and throw curses left and right.
From the game design standpoint: Curses are bad system, human moderation would be way better.
From OHOL drama standpoint: Moderation would take away much of the required drama while curses try to balance it out.
#5 Re: Main Forum » Eve Spawn (east again) Highways, and Survival Difficulty » 2021-06-16 01:31:25
I think everything just needs to slowly revert back one step.
What about objects with multiple orygins? Things you can get as outcome as multiple different actions? This would require additional informations about every object - if it has "previous" decay step and what it is.
When the clay goes back to 'nothing' I think the pit it came from should re-grow. The water used to make the plaster immediately returns to the well.
There is no way to tell which resource node materials actually came from. Its not tracked and tracking such detailed information wouldn't be beneficial to the game. Both developement time wise and server resource wise.
This way all resources including mines, tarry spots, and wells just constantly regenerate at some rate (fast enough to come back to, slow enough that you must leave eventually)
Everything runs out. Basic premise of the game. Also - what about "lost" items or resouces used for production of things that got consumed?
Map is already wiped in areas not visited for a while so the server resources are already freed after some time.
#6 Re: Main Forum » Transphobic/harassment discrimination from moderator (fug/Tarr)? » 2021-06-16 01:05:06
Interesting...
#7 Re: Main Forum » How is it okay? » 2019-09-24 01:59:30
Can people with high curse counts have higher cool downs on their lives?
No, because that would be against TOS or rather lack there off. Some players can't really have different access level to the game because they purchased the same thing and Jason didn't leave himself an opening in Terms of Service to deal with cases like that.
#8 Main Forum » Protocol/log change: client cused (for statistical purposes) » 2019-09-23 10:58:51
- Joriom
- Replies: 0
Hello. I would like to suggest a small change in the login protocol and death logs that would show what client was used for that life, thus allowing us to compare differences between vanilla players vs people using other clients (like awbz).
SN
current_players/max_players
challenge_string
required_version_number
#
LOGIN email password_hash account_key_hash tutorial_number twin_code_hash twin_count#
D time p_ID email_hash age=var sex (x,y) cause_of_death pop=varchange to:
SN
current_players/max_players
challenge_string
public_key
required_version_number
#
LOGIN email password_hash account_key_hash tutorial_number twin_code_hash twin_count client_name_encrypted#
D time p_ID email_hash age=var sex (x,y) cause_of_death pop=var c=client_decoded_name**not in case of default client. Further read details.
First Sequence Number (SN) message would also provide public key for encryption.
Login message would also report client name encrypted using public key.
Server would decrypt client name using private key and use to in Birth/Death logs to inform if client was modified and what name it reported.
Few details:
- Default (oryginal, nonmodified) client name would be displayer in logs differently than the name sent by the client. Read further.
- Encryption with public/private key pair added so default client impersonation is harder. There should also be some random salting string in the encrypted name that is discarded after decryption server side as to make encrypted messages change.
- I get that game is open source - but "default" reported client name could be contained in a file that is ignored by git and not included in public repo (maybe except for the template?). In case of that file missing, client would by default report "unknown" or "modified". This would make it so only way to impersonate default client would be oryginals client direct memmory reading to find the name... which could be stored encrypted as well... and I don't think anyone would be really going to go to those lengths .
- Custom client providers could include their client name in their distrubuted binaries so they report their name of liking, like "awbz" or something instead of the default "unknown" or "modified".
Well... a lot of work for nothing, right? Although, with this information we could check if players using zoomed out client do better (and how much better) than default client users, how many people use what client (if client providers give them custom names) and for example - if modified clients make it easier to kill (current hot topic) because we all know griefers and trolls will use tools that best allow them to do their tasks.
#9 Re: Main Forum » Needs immediate attention » 2019-09-19 10:14:33
Timed out, not banned, which he already knew because we had short private conversation right after. I feel like everything that could be said was already said. I'm closing this thread to stop OP spamming by double and triple posting over and over again.
#10 Re: Main Forum » Is donkey town permanent? » 2018-10-09 19:27:26
You cannot curse marked people
You can.
#11 Re: Main Forum » Is donkey town permanent? » 2018-10-09 19:02:49
curse Vexenie
#12 Main Forum » [DISCUSS] Zoomed Out FOV mod - discontinuation? » 2018-10-08 23:00:40
- Joriom
- Replies: 68
Hello guys and gals.
As some of you might know, for past 5 months I've been updating and maintaining online releases of zoomed out FOV mod which allows you to see further in game.
Sadly, game developer, Jason, according to my knowledge for the first time now, officially and directly denounced usage of this mod as clearly in oposition to what he intends for the game.
Well, I wish people wouldn't use it, but it's open source and I can't stop you.
But it's not the experience that I intended.
Seeing this, I consider discontinuation of the project, especially that I haven't played game myself for around 5 months as well as... actually I've never player a full life using zoomed out mod myself!
Although before I make final decision I would like to ask you, every-day players about opinions. That's strongly due to the following Jason statements (as well on Discord around the same time):
Not everybody uses a zoom mod.
I'm guessing it's 10% or less.
Almost no YT videos use it, for a reason (too hard to see the characters in a YT vid on a phone)[...]
I have a particular way I want the game to look and feel
Is it just that "10%" minority that enjoys the wider view?
How important is zoomed out FOV mod for you really and do you even use it?
If you don't mind, I would be glad if you could spare minute or two of your time to answer those questions:
Are you using zoomed out client or have you used it in the past?
https://www.strawpoll.me/16609506
Should the project be discontinued?
https://www.strawpoll.me/16609532
How long have you been using this mod for (if ever)?
https://www.strawpoll.me/16609546
Please share your thoughts.
P. S. There is already better, more polished version released by Awbz, maybe you have heared about it?
#14 Re: Main Forum » PETITION seperate servers for STEAM users » 2018-10-02 03:46:19
Jason wants to launch on steam because currently our player base is not growing. Many players play maybe a couple games a day or drop it for months at a time.
Let me just remind you all this post:
The original idea for OHOL was that everyone would get to play a single life, and that was it. You pay $5 for this insanely amazing hour that you will never forget, and then at the end of it, you say goodbye forever. Literally ONE LIFE, and only one life.... imagine that game for a minute...
... and also that:
This is NOT a game that is supposed to be interesting for 100s or 1000s of lives.
[...]
But if you do it over and over and over, hundreds of times.... well, you rub that spot raw, I suppose, and feel nothing at the end of your life anymore. If you want to keep playing after that, what are you going to get out of the game?
Also more from here:
FeignedSanity wrote:Wait...so I wasn't meant to sink over 100 hours into this game so far? So it's not your intention to make a game you could enjoy over and over? That kind of has me concerned for where the future might go, but I'm definitely still interested.
This is complicated.
The game wasn't designed to support 100 hours of boredom-free play. 100 hours is a lot.
There are a handful of people who have played the game exactly once for exactly one hour. Getting born, getting taken care of, and living to old age in some village. And then never playing the game again. I guess they feel like they got their money's worth in that one precious hour. I mean, really, that has to be the greatest first hour of video game play ever.
Oh, and even more here:
Imagine the hypothetical version of the game where each person only played the game once.
[...]
That is the underlying theory of the game. That's it's ideal form. You play one tiny part in a much larger story. It doesn't matter if you play one hour or 100 hours, because you learn from your parents and make your little contribution before dying.Even financially, it would be foolish for me to make a game for those 100+ hour players. There are currently only 300 of them, making up about 2% of the people who have played the game.
If you're interested in even more information about topic, you might also want to check out this post.
#15 Re: Main Forum » question for people who arent jason » 2018-09-29 12:15:28
Jason already knows about this problems (thanks Kailied) and states its hard to fix for him. The problem lies with engine (again...). Theoretically single map tile can hold single item and its decay timer. When you stack baskets - they technically become a single item with number of uses - this means they would all share the decay timer parameter. Which one should be used? Longest? Shortest? Averaged out?
#16 Re: Main Forum » [DOWNLOAD] Windows Client with additions (updated over time) » 2018-09-28 15:58:18
Updated to binary v147, data v146. Vanilla client updated as well.
#17 Re: Main Forum » Don't make oven base pens, make adobe half walls. » 2018-09-27 09:53:27
Make pens of dead bodies. Like, really.
#18 Re: Main Forum » map chunk » 2018-09-27 09:43:10
Map pull is available in client but disabled in settings folder. Even if you enable it, server has to have it enabled in its settings as well to allow map pulls. Official servers have this diabled.
You could somehow reuse this code though to work on map data received during gameplay (generating image on the fly or storing map data and drawing it all at once at the end).
#19 Re: Main Forum » Meanwhile in donkey town » 2018-09-27 09:34:54
I feel like a broken record.
"Stay cool. Stay on topic. Stop derailing thread with personal insults. ALL of you. If you feel offended, assume moral highground and... ignore. Be smarter. Don't insult back."
This post is not up to discussion - at least not here. If you really want to discuss this - make new thread about it.
#20 Re: Main Forum » Stop making lazy sheep pens. » 2018-09-25 18:28:21
It's ugly. Let's build something pretty.
And we found the person who gets stabbed the most in every village 
#21 Re: Main Forum » Stop making lazy sheep pens. » 2018-09-25 18:19:58
Until Jason decides to either nerf trash pits or make fences cheaper and less griefable, nobody's going to stop building them.
... and thats why we can't have nice things. Thats also why you play singleplayer games if you want things to look nice.
#22 Re: Main Forum » How often do you Murder? » 2018-09-25 15:55:03
Where are options:
"I kill when I feel like it"
"I kill only fertile females"
"I kill only non-griefers"
We need more options for sure.
#23 Re: Main Forum » Steam: I've decided to do it » 2018-09-25 14:18:49
I thought it was wierd that your install file defaults to the location of the file, rather than an explicit location in program files. That could be why people are losing their install; they're looking for it in the program files directory, where it should be, but it's in their downloads folder.
First of all - you're wrong. OHOL does not even has installator nor install process. There is only self-extractor. Unboxing mechanism that dumps contents out of the single archive you received game in. So "install file" can't default so anything as there is no "install file". OHOL does not use windows users folder nor system registry. There is nothing to install.
Also, why should it be in "Program Files"? (and lets skip "Program Files" vs "Program Files (x86)" debate as well) Why not C:\Games\OHOL\? Why not C:\MyUserName\OHOL\? Or hell, like in my personal example D:\private\games\OHOL?
#24 Re: Main Forum » Steam: I've decided to do it » 2018-09-25 13:13:48
A few more reasons why Steam matters:
#SteamLivesMatter
*sigh*
#25 Re: Main Forum » Steam: I've decided to do it » 2018-09-24 20:49:39
Also how will it work, exactly? From what I know of Steam, what you're purchasing is the actual rights to play the game- but the way you've been going about this since the beginning was not purchasing rights to the game, but purchasing an "account" on the official servers, so-to-speak.
Speaking about Steam and rights... I feel like projects like 2HOL and OHOL mobile might get into some trouble with Steam looking how greedy Steam tends to be. Or Jason might get problems because of those projects.