a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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It coincides with "login failed" issue so probably related or the same.
In real life a family is the most important social group to which a person could belong to. Our families teach us about the importance of knowledge, education, hard work and effort. Family lays the foundation of the social and moral etiquettes which defines a person and how that person relates to the larger society. Children depend on parents to provide for their needs. By nurturing and teaching children families play an important role in making sure they develop and thrive on the long term.
Families support their children not only in moral and health but also financially. Not that long ago it was common for businesses to be run by families and inherited by their descendants. Jobs weren't just "for life", often they could also be for the children's life as well. Inheritance of wealth ensured the parents hard work would benefit their children even after they pass away.
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines a family as both "a group of persons with common ancestry" and as "a group of individuals living under one roof."
In the game we have no such social group. People often identify their lives in terms of "town" and "lineage". Uncles and first cousins are indistinguishable from cousins 5th times removed or from some random eve that happened to find the town. Relationships of mother and daughter often don't develop much after the child is able to grab stuff at 3 years old. People exchange the customary "ily gl" with the occasional emote and that's it. If a daughter dies one might not even notice. It isn't uncommon to realize your mother already died because you suddenly became old yourself.
Any direct families do not matter at all unless it matters for the town/lineage. The traditional "last female". If town or lineage is at risk then people will rally together to help the last fertile with advice, varied food and clothing. If last female dies people often suicide and stop playing. In these situations family matters. But why not on others?
I do not have a 100% answer on how to make people care about families. But if there is one thing I strongly believe is that it's essential to have the concept of family existing in-game. For families to matter your daughter cannot have the same value for you that your niece has. Or your cousin. Or your aunt. There needs to be in-game distinction and incentive. Not some abstract reincarnation incentive like family graveyards but incentive in-the-same-life incentive.
Having a sort of traditional family unit (mother, father, children) concept in-game could benefit not only the sense of community and teamwork but also ensure people are invested into being productive. If resources are split between families, those who don't pull their weight will die off. This will inevitably create conflict and some inefficiency but in the long term towns and game experiences might be better off with the resulting competition and player stories. Having lineage's dead branches die off instead of them dragging the entire lineage with them will probably help too.
Property fences aren't perfect nor awful. They mostly just don't matter unless you want to hardcore roleplay or just try it out. It's not that they are necessarily inherently bad, it's just that they are not an incentive but a tool towards achieving something. But without the incentive no one will use the tool.
Families could help with some aspects of the game:
Ability to regulate fertility: Don't want children? Don't get married.
Ability to ensure your decedents specifically survive: fence off the fruits of your labor and make sure your children benefit from your hard work.
More incentive to teach new players
Family based professions?
Ultimately I believe there needs to be some sort of social group within lineages and above the individual. Families seem like the natural go-to option. They might not work 100% like in real life since OHOL children are pretty much independent from age 3 and probably wouldn't be much fun to increase that to 14 or 18. With some compromises we could have a fun and interesting "atom mechanic" which hopefully could finally help trigger all those tradings and wars.
They are not. It's rare to see a town with them. No real reason to use them yet.
My guess is that was the original intent but the workload was just too much for one week. We might be getting those ingame later on.
I've been thinking on how to expand the existing pool of jobs that can be available in a town across the town life-cycle.
The "clay tech tree" seems rather underdeveloped and could potentially help as quality of life improvements to town life.
I would divide Clay Products into four categories:
Utensils: clay spoon, bowl, plate, mugs
Storage: clay jar (solid storage: carrots, grain, onions, tomatoes), clay jugs (liquid storage: water, salt water, vinegar, milk, cane juice, palm oil)
Decorative: vase (flowers, bonsai), art, small statues
Building Materials: bricks, tiles
Lately I've seen more and more kilns separated from the main forge area specifically dedicated for clay products. Unfortunately there are only so many bowls and plates you need in a town. Having a larger array of options for pottery would be awesome.
While pottery could be used for "high capacity long term storage" that would probably be a bit unbalanced as pottery is rather early tech. Clay based storage could serve more as an everyday storage kind of niche. A couple examples:
A clay jug could maybe only hold 3 water bowls, making it impractical for farming, but could be good enough to keep one in the kitchen for pie making.
A clay jar could perhaps only hold 5 items such as carrots. That is a carrot stack which would not improve overall storage but could help in transporting those carrots from one place to another. I could have a jar of my own and go refill it whenever I needed more items.
Clay jugs could help unclutter some of the intermediary products such as vinegar, cane juice, palm oil. By having each jug hold 3 bowls' worth as an example, players could start working on actively making those ahead of time before they are needed. Could potentially create an entirely new profession.
Decorative vases or random art could also be fun additions. Perhaps a "vase made by" message when you mouse over it as well.
It certainly wouldn't hurt towards the road to 10,000 items haha.
Bricks and whatnot could potentially also had additional options for construction. Perhaps could be a more efficient version of adobe? Or maybe have adobe come from mixing reeds with soil instead? I'm not very enthusiastic about this category but I'm sure plenty of people in the community would love to have new materials to play with. ![]()
What do you guys think? Would extending pottery in the game be a good addition? What other items would you guys want?
Yes, and this is what makes a huge map full of interactive, advancing things possible. When no one is looking, we stop updating those tiles.
Imagine if we had to keep every unseen milkweed plant blooming. Guess how many milkweed plants are on the map.
My rough estimate is 16,000,000,000,000,000
16 quadrillion milkweed plants. Can't possibly update them all every 30 seconds!
Even if we could update a million plants per second, it would take 500 years to update them all even one time.
Even if we just focused on the ones that had been seen by someone at some point in the past, that number would grow arbitrarily large as the life of the server wore on. So we have to forget about ones that haven't been seen in a while.
This is true for fires, as well as for moving animals.
Any chance you could add cactus to have fruit when generated and rabbit holes to be family from the get go? Quite annoying having to explore an area and wait until the rabbits turn into family rabbits. Untouched wilderness should have had time to fully grow these two.
I wish we could stay more on topic on forum topics like this one.
It looks awesome.
Would we be able to see it ingame or just on the website?

Capacity for 3 people including driver.
4 boxes on the back for a total capacity of 16 baskets.
2 horses
Regular walking speed.
Mandatory for the settlement of sattelite towns, family migration (imcluding their belongings) and long distance trading.
Please Jason.
Resources can be made to be infinite long term but finite on the short term. You can have mines regenerate iron over time just like wells regenerate water.
The main issue imo is that the civilizations right now are always the same. You find a place with soil/ponds and enough trees for kindling and you start your town. Every town will start with the same starting conditions and it will grow essentially the same. This means towns do not have variety like they always had in real life.
In real life towns weren't always made for the same reasons. One town might be a "mining town" created because the area was iron rich or copper rich. Another town might be a farming town having rich soil and abundant water. Another town might be a fishing town because of the availability of sea resources. Another town was created artificially for government or a trading town because it happens to be in the middle of a trading route.
We have no such diversity in OHOL. Every town is the same. Every town has the same resources. You get essentially the same life in every town depending on the "town progress". If every town is the same there is no reason for trade, war, conquest, colonization, expansion.
If you want to rework resources somehow, then you can make it so that towns need to either specialize or make it accessible to have satellite towns. If a farming town grew enough but needed iron for example. They could go the distance and settle a second town where iron is available. Maybe not a permanently settlement at first, but maybe some food storage, some infrastructure (like horse parking). Then over time it could make sense to have a more sizable and permanent town pumping out iron not only for that farming town but also for other farming towns around them. Maybe the mining town would be 100% dependent on food coming from these farm towns.
Maybe iron on mines could regenerate based on how many people live nearby or add some sort of labor intensive process to retrieve iron that needs to be processed on the same place.
I had this idea of "regions" which would be a sort of virtual region on top of the biomes we have right now. These regions would be specialized in resources. Maybe in one you could have iron ore. On another you could grow tomatoes/onions, on another you had shrimps and fish. This could also allow for more trade with other towns.
Right now it's too hard to make a temporary settlement where food isn't available. Food takes too much space and you can only take yourself. If you had like wagons that could carry more people and more food then maybe you could have a sort of trading caravan which could carry more stuff around.
Ever thought about moving iron from random pickings on the floor to an actual mine that self regenerates from time to time?
I also been getting the double disconnection issue repeatedly. Today it even failed to login me back into the game for a couple tries.
@Jason
The problem is that the feeding sheep serves multiple purpose. We use it for wool (clothing, thread, pads), mutton and poop. We can now control how much mutton we get from the sheeps and also how much wool. But we had no way of balancing the output of those three byproducts resulting in excess poop (before we had a shortage so the change was good).
We currently have the same issue with excess grain while doing compost. Specially with the new crops we have much higher usage of soil. Most ingredients to make soil can have their amount balanced by players. But while doing compost we get a byproduct of grain which also doesn't decay. Today I spent one life doing compost and we had around 30 grain just on the floor taking up space between farms because we had way too much of it. In addition to compost there were people also making adobe buildings and using up even more straw and leaving even more grain on the floor.
If you could somehow make grain decay over time or add another crop that only produces the straw part that we could use for adobe/baskets/compost without incurring into grain overflow it would be great.
You had all the right to defend your property. That life must have been fun haha.
After a playing a few games and going so far as actually owning a house inside a fence (like a real life house with a garden) I reckon people will inevitably tone down these "property projects".
While having a farm inside a fence might be cool. There are considerably annoyances regarding distance of walk, non availability of water and constant need to reinforce tens of rickety fences.
I believe we will eventually move towards a more modest and smarter way of handling property.
Before the update I was planning some fences like these:
I implemented it a couple times and saw others doing the same but I ran into the problems I mentioned above.
Instead here what I believe is the future for farming:
The important tiles are actually only the seed row and possibly a bow with seed bowls. Having a couple gates right next to each other should allow you to easily access the area without too much hassle and close them just as easily. This should keep maintenance to a minimum while still providing the essential function of keeping seeds available which might or not be an issue depending on the surrounding environment.
In real life Norway exists the "Svalbard Global Seed Vault" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svalbard_ … Seed_Vault) containing next to a million plant seed samples in an effort to prevent the permanent loss of plant species for whatever reason. In game we could perhaps have something similar in a couple closed box with bowls of all the seeds we need (carrot, wheat, milkweed, beans, squash, etc). Maybe this way we wouldn't need to have one box per farm.
For storage we might go a more modest direction:
Having knifes, bows and other sensitive stuff such as keys behind property protected boxes might help mitigate the access to those objects from griefers or just newbies who don't know how to use them. Right now we end up with people carrying 4 knifes on their inventory or to try to pick some random person to give them the knife before they die. Bows hidden far away from town forgotten by the ages which no one knows where they are when the random bear attacks. Perhaps we could also have an extra area with protected pads & needle to help make sure those are available when that naked kid starts walking around with the bow in his hands.
Having sensitive items in a centralized designated area and whitelisting people who are trustworthy could allow better item management and ensure their availability.
Or maybe property fences/gates are destined to allow the storage of keys. A sort of two-factor authentication in-game.
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So far the most useful thing property fences allowed was for me to have my own "yum storage" while being the last female. I actively made each type of food and stored it inside only giving access to the area to my daughters/granddaughters. It was great having those available without the fear of them disappearing to some random dude who didn't care about yum and could be eating mutton pies instead.
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What do you guys think? Are fences/gates here to stay? Are they really going to be family based? Profession based? Or will access be divided "by class" in which people considered useful/experienced members of society will have access to additional goodies such as knifes, bows or keys?

I actually think the future property related stuff is going to be way smaller:
My guess people will use multiple of these to store important stuff such as yum foods, bows, knifes, ropes, etc.
Fenced carrot and milkweed farms might or might not stay relevant. People might even just fence the one carrot/milkweed tile that is supposed to give seeds instead of the whole thing. Like so:
A very convenient place to die tho ![]()
I did notice how annoying it is to keep watering stuff inside those fences though. Even with a bucket there are only so many water bowls you can get from it before having to refill.
Might be a good idea to start adding a cistern too.
Haha I also did a milkweed farm for my first fence/gate.
The amount of rope that gets wasted on primitive hoes and 3 different bows is astonishing. Having a more controlled spending on rope is a big plus imo.
Also no more every single milkweed being picked on fruiting. That's 10 years of your life of unusable farmland!
Your's seem larger than mine. I did a small 3x5 inner and it worked relatively fine considering I was only doing milkweed part time (spent most of my life tending the berry farm and getting soil).
Also you don't need to tear down every single fence. It will decay relatively soon. Just do it on a couple places.
You can add an area in front for dumping the resources.
A furnace is just two adobe. You don't make pies that often nor do you that that many clutter around both on eve camps. Just don't make the eggs there. Making it central makes it easier for people to know there is proper food available.
I have been doing furnaces at the same time as forges for ages. You get 3 adobe per basket. For two trips you get 6. That's 4 for the forge and 2 for the furnace.
I normally make the furnaces either facing wherever I think the pen will be or one tile away from the the kiln (left of right). Lately I've been doing the latter more and more. They can be easily expanded into a second kiln and we can just make another furnace elsewhere.
Pies are great (specially rabbit pies) for early game and completely independent from tools. And you don't need to farm at all to get the wheat and rabbits. It can make the town a lot more sustainable relatively quickly. Helps reduce skewer usage as well which is a pain early on.
I always done either 2:3:1, 3:6:3 or 3:7:2
Not really sure why you would need exact ratios on this as long as you have enough beans + corn for your squash tho.
Beans and corn have extra ways of being used to I often do extra just in case.
Indeed. Bushes aren't blocking, fixed!
In relation to the carrots. It's never a good idea to just keep the ratio of rows. You want an excess of carrot seeds just in case. Especially if you want to create other carrot farms.