a multiplayer game of parenting and civilization building
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Is it still possible to Eve spawn in the tutorial area??
Well... like I said a month ago:
I think this can still be done, but only on a low-population server. If you do the tutorial and die of old age and then reconnect to the same server at a moment when that server has fewer than four fertile women, you will spawn as a fertile Eve on the spot where your tutorial Eve died.
I'd love for someone to confirm this, though. There's been enough changes in the past many months that I'm no longer certain it works.
Why not connect to a low-population server and see if you can do it, then report back with your findings?
Anything that blocks movement, including walls, will block animal movement as well, including mosquitoes. Only a single tile is needed to block movement through that tile.
Adobe oven bases and half bell tower bases block movement, are cheap to create, and are difficult to move on accident, which is why you so often see sheep pens made out of them.
The onetech.info entry for an item will show whether or not it blocks movement. See for example https://onetech.info/814-Half-Bell-Tower-Base which does and https://onetech.info/812-Stone-Block which does not.
Any item at all will prevent an animal from stopping on a tile, but will not block the animal from moving through it, which is why you need a five-tile-deep "wall" to effectively block animal movement using non-movement-blocking items.
As stew said, you can use the native Windows server package made by Awbz. Be sure to get the latest version, which will always be at the URL below.
Download the win_full package
Unzip it
Go to the "server" folder, right-click on "runServer.bat" and choose "Run as administrator"
In the game client, connect to localhost.
If you use "Run as administrator" the softlinks should be made for you automatically, but as stew pointed out you might have to create them yourself it that doesn't work for some reason. Once the links are made, you don't need to use "Run as administrator" the next time you start the server.
Shot:
i went on to kill as many girls as possible
Chaser:
needless to say ill be spending the next two hours in donkey town for being born to the wrong family....
The lack of self-awareness on display here is staggering. Please enjoy your stay in Donkey Town. You should probably expect to see a lot of it.
Shovel the stumps. It's worth a shovel use to get wood for kindling.
Too many babies leading to famine is nonsense. Too many players not contributing leads to famine
YES
LISTEN TO THIS MAN
Keeping bad temperature and low yum works great to keep away babies, as long as the game population is stable or falling.
When the game population is rising, everyone gets maximum babies regardless of yum or temp.
Hauling bones is just a part of the game. Basic maintenance. Only a handful of people do it, but it's gotta be done. Doesn't take much time, though.
It's kind of annoying when you're the only one doing it.
It's a bit complicated. Because I see the game is: You play 1 life in a community and then start a totally new life. However after playing it this way for some time you wanna focus on bigger projects, projects that can not finish in 1 life. So you kinda want to get back to the city where your project is. I think this should be possible (even thought its a bit against the idea of the game).
You have answered your own question - it is against the idea of the game. It is directly counter to the idea of the game. Jason has on multiple occasions taken steps to prevent exactly what you are asking for. Jason does not want you to continue working on projects that take longer than one life; he wants you to leave a legacy and die, hoping that your descendants will continue where you left off but unable to know whether they will or not.
That is the entire game in a nutshell.
The current apocalypse is not at the end of the tech tree. Not even close.
one day you'll get tired of your own whining
Just wanted to (finally!) add that this is a heroic effort, one which I appreciate. I'm not sure a conclusive analysis is workable, but I think a stab in that direction is worthwhile.
Ignore Bob.
Not to diminish any of your other points in the least, but for the record, OHOL is Jason's full-time job.
Jason implemented killing because he thought that would be a good way to deal with griefers, and because it seemed like a make-the-game-more-like-the-real-world move. "In the real world, you stop people from doing bad things by using cops, who ultimately derive their coercive powers using lethal weapons. So I'll give you the ability to do that, too!"
Unfortunately, Jason was wrong. His approach was naive. Griefers don't participate in the in-game construction of social infrastructure, and creating an in-game model of the real-world social infrastructure doesn't affect their behavior.
Griefers don't care if you kill them; they expect it. Griefers care if you take their toys away. That's what curses and Donkey Town are for.
I've installed the Awbz server multiple times without issue, but I haven't tried it for a few weeks. Maybe something's different and broken about the newest build/package.
The symptoms you're having don't match any issues I've encountered in the past, so I can't offer any solutions off the top of my head.
At the very least, double-check the links (the sources and targets of the mklink commands). Make sure they exist, make sure they're links, make sure they're pointing to the correct subdirectories. This sometimes doesn't get done correctly, depending on the version of Windows and the privileges you're running as.
The Awbz server should be pre-configured to accept any credentials from the client. It might not accept blank credentials (I'm not sure), but it should accept the same credentials that you're using in the normal client for the normal servers. If you're using Steam, those are (I believe) auto-populated. You should be able to overwrite them with any username and password and successfully connect and login to the Awbz server.
cd /d %~dp0 changes the working directory of the batch file execution into the directory that the batch file resides in, regardless of which drive or directory was the working directory at the time the batch file was invoked. If that command is throwing errors, then it's likely that the server installation will be faulty, as the necessary links will not be created in the correct location and won't be linking to the correct destination.
What version of Windows are you doing this on?
I don't have time at the moment to try doing a fresh install myself, but if I can get to it in the near future I'll let you know what I learn.
Awbz is often on the OHOL Discord and has been very helpful in the past when I've had install troubles. You could try looking for him there and asking for help.
A lot of great discussion here.
It's very encouraging that you're reading the discussions, and that you're sharing your thoughts around what you want out of the game mechanics, and why.
In order to have a perfect temp, clothing, buildings, and heating should be necessary. Otherwise, you should be cold.
So this is good, and pretty straight-forward to accomplish. What made it difficult was the inclusion of warm and hot biomes, coupled with clothing always making you hotter (rather than moderating your temperature whether hot or cold). This meant that clothing would be an asset at times but a liability at other times, because people don't stay on one biome. Taking clothing off and putting it on when crossing biome boundaries is a non-starter because of usability and storage problems, so the decision to wear clothing or not comes down to evaluating the trade-offs. On the plus side: lower food consumption in most biomes. On the minus side: the difficulty and expense of getting clothing in the first place, higher food consumption in some biomes, and guaranteed death due to mosquitoes. Frankly, it's an easy decision, especially since the benefit (lower food consumption) is mostly irrelevant once food production is mature.
This is why I recommended two types of clothes: warm clothes which make you strictly warmer in any location, and cool clothes which warm you in cold locations and cool you in warm locations. This fits with real-world clothing usage, as many people have pointed out. And it leads to good gameplay: people who expect to stay mostly in cool climates will choose warm clothes, people who expect to stay mostly in warm climates, or to travel between them, will choose cool clothes.
There's also the inevitable-death-from-mosquitoes thing. One way to help with that would be to make clothing offer some protection against mosquitoes, and maybe even other animals as well. If you did that, then people would make clothing a high priority! And it has a basis in reality as well. But at the very least, rethink the mechanisms behind yellow fever and temperature control so that hitting mosquitoes fully-clothed isn't a death sentence. Yes, hitting other animals is a death sentence too, but the point is that with mosquitoes, clothing makes the difference between an annoying delay that you can survive and the end of your current life, which means that everyone will simply choose not to wear clothing.
Unless we find a solution to the "perfect naked area" problem (on a boundary or blend point between biomes), I'm tempted to make all biomes cold, and some (like arctic) colder.
That would be a shame, because it seems odd that being naked in a jungle or desert would make you too cold. If instead, you make it so that being naked in those places makes you too hot, and you have clothing which cools you down (which, again, is what happens in real life) then you can still accomplish your goal of making clothing important everywhere without having to say that jungles are cold.
I do still worry that, as long as some biomes are hot and others cold, there will be ways to exploit that along biome boundaries. [..] And yes, I HATE that there is currently a "good spot" for the baby to stand (unless it is next to a fire---I do like that). [..] I do think it's dumb that natural temp can change so drastically in th middle of a town.
I think this is a solvable problem.
Make climate regions larger than biomes, so that the temperature doesn't change much across the entirety of a large town. Make sure that each climate region is either too hot or too cold, so that the "ideal temperature" locations are limited to the borders between climate zones, and are only achievable by going back and forth between the two climate zones.
People currently settle where there's a border between hot and cold because that makes it easy to have a baby-parking spot without tending a fire. But those spots are fairly easy to come by - just look for an otherwise good spot (i.e. next to water and near grasslands) that either borders jungle or desert, or that has a small patch of jungle or desert tiles intruding. There's your baby pen. But if climate zones were somewhat decoupled from biome borders, good places like that would be fewer and would be harder to recognize even where they do exist. Looking for such a spot just to avoid lighting a fire would become pointless, and people wouldn't bother.
Also, people settle on deserts and jungles not mainly for the baby-parking spots, but because putting the berry farm on desert or jungle reduces food consumption by babies, mothers, and newbies by a factor of four. That's because right now, being naked in desert or jungle is not as hot as being naked in the other biomes is cold. But you can instead make the warm/hot climate zones just as punishing as the cool/cold climate zones by tweaking the numbers.
If you take away the incentive to settle on deserts (said incentive is currently huge), there will be many more settlements on grasslands, plains, and swamps, and many fewer settlements with a hot/cold border conveniently close by.
And I guess there should also be some penalty for "overdoing it," or some specialty clothing that is really only viable in the very coldest places. Like the seal coat. Maybe you'd wear that for a polar trip, but not generally hang out at home in one. Also should be possible to overdo it with heat sources. If you have a fire and a forge and an oven in your house all going at the same time, you should overheat in there, especially if you're wearing warm clothes on top of it all.
What this suggests to me is the following:
Clothing ("cool clothing") moderates temperature: warms in cold, cools in heat
Buildings moderate temperature
Warm clothing (furs, wool?) raises temperature
Fires raise temperature
This gives you reasons to wear clothing and make buildings in both cold and hot climates, but also allows you to get overheated if you wear the wrong kind of clothing in a hot climate, wear the wrong clothing into a building, or build too many fires inside a building.
Also, when coming into the house, I do not want to encourage you to "strip down" completely. That would be tedious. But I would want you to take off your hat, or your polar coat. Just one thing removed should be enough to regulate you down to perfect.
I'm skeptical you can make this work for going in and out of buildings. The penalty would have to be immense for it to be worth taking off a hat, finding a place to put it down, working around the loss of a free space, hoping nobody else takes it, finding it again when leaving (since it probably will have gotten moved), and putting it back on.
But if you have warm and cool clothing, buildings that moderate temperatures, and fires that raise them, then someone who is going to take up long-term residence in a heated building (i.e. a smithy or bakery or possibly a nursery) will adjust their clothing as needed to keep an ideal temperature. That might be a full set minus a hat, or it might be nearly nothing if there are multiple fires going. I wouldn't try to find numbers that would result in it always being "take off your hat, and only your hat, whenever going inside any building anywhere at any time". I don't think you could find numbers like that.
pein lives to make his own towns succeed and has a hair trigger towards anyone he thinks is an obstacle to that success, or that annoys him in some way. I applaud his goals and am critical of his methods.
I couldn't understand what he was saying, but even so that was awesome to watch. I always love seeing well-intentioned good-natured new players learning how to play.
and I do not say that the current system of curses is useless, but it is not logical that every time we come across a griefer in a game we resort to hardening the requirements of DonkeyTown, but instead we are not able to kill the assassin instantly when is relaxed
Cursing and banishing to Donkey Town is the correct response to a griefer. Simply killing them is pointless.
Killing a griefer does not deter them; they consider that part of the game they are playing. It encourages them. They will try harder next time. And killing them simply sends them along to some other town where they will try again right away.
Cursing and banishing takes away their fun, and hopefully encourages them to quit playing.
I usually go North or South - you reveal more tiles with each step when going North/South compared to going West/East, giving you a higher chance of finding whatever you're looking for
You'll reveal even more tiles with each step by going diagonally. Diagonal steps take the same amount of time as orthogonal steps, but cover twice as much distance (twice as much when measured along the grid, that is... only 1.4 times as much when measured as the crow flies).
With sugar comes alcohol!
Congratulations and thanks, jrudolf and Jason!
pein, your post is basically pointless until the update actually comes out. There's no telling what he's going to change until we actually get to see it, and the effects will be hard to predict until we actually get to play it.
I'm not convinced that Jason has a strong enough idea of what he wants to accomplish that he'll be able to accomplish it. I expect a lot of tweaking of values in the weeks ahead.
Potatoes qualify as better than any other food for long trips given that a player tries to keep his or her yum chain going and wants to bring home as much as possible.
If you're going on a long trip, forget about yum and bring pies.
Yum is a toy.