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#326 Re: Main Forum » Some items are used for too many tasks and have no alternative. » 2019-04-01 23:33:16

This. Changing a tool to make it do less is easier than inventing new tools. There's no reason the people inside the game wouldn't be able to.

#327 Re: Main Forum » your vidja game ideas » 2019-04-01 23:27:22

futurebird wrote:

oddly no one ever comes to me with ideas for a killer proof when I tell them I do math

Posting here so I'll be able to find this thread later

#328 Re: Main Forum » Why there are no wars » 2019-04-01 22:55:18

jasonrohrer wrote:

What if, instead of being a soul, the player was a chromosome?

Yay! I've been suggesting this since almost a year ago big_smile

So we want to encourage players to care about their descendants. Two questions: how, and what does it mean?


Starting with the second one, here's a relatively simple proposal.

1. Alice is an Eve -> Alice's genes are 100% Alice.
2. Bob is Alice's daughter -> Bob's genes are 1/2 Bob and 1/2 Alice.
3. Charlie is Bob's daughter -> Charlie's genes are 1/2 Charlie, 1/4 Bob and 1/4 Alice.
4. Alice spawns again as Charlie's daughter -> Alice's new genes are 1/2+1/4 Alice, 1/4 Charlie and 1/8 Bob.

The general idea is that every time a new player is born, their genes are 50% (or any other ratio) their own and 50% their mother's.
This way we can track how much player A's current character is related to any of player B's previous characters.


Now for the second question: how do we encourage players to care about having more characters with their genes?

The most obvious idea is to make it possible to tell how much someone is related to you by writing the percentage next to their name.
The next obvious idea is to have leaderboards sorted by the aggregate amount of genes in all the characters currently alive.

The older idea is to change the "magic" parts of the game: spawns and karma. For example, genes could be used as the chance that the player is allowed to be your mother this time. For another example, genes could be a karma modifier: you have more influence over your descendants, and they have less influence over you.


P. S. A not directly related, but interesting article about evolution: No Evolutions for Corporations or Nanodevices

#329 Re: Main Forum » Why there are no wars » 2019-04-01 21:57:53

jasonrohrer wrote:

Quiz:  Your family is running out of food, and your last girl child is about to starve to death, resulting in the end of your family line.  Nearby in the same town, there's an unrelated family that has plenty of extra food.  You ask for some assistance

Premise ridiculous. Take their stuff without asking.

#330 Re: Main Forum » Open Letter From the Mobile Developers » 2019-03-06 21:15:14

The best and easiest solution here still seems to be changing the name and the graphics.

You could start using a genre name like "OHOL-like". I'm pretty sure Jason's game *will* spawn a new genre sooner on later.

#331 Re: Main Forum » Open Letter to the Mobile Developers » 2019-03-01 21:44:25

It's probably fine that some people are mistaken about authorship, as long as most people are not. If like 70% know which version was made by whom, they'll be able to correct the rest.

Christoffer, it's nice to know you guys are taking this seriously. Makes one hope that IRL civilization is not doomed the same way OHOL towns are smile

#332 Re: Main Forum » Open Letter to the Mobile Developers » 2019-03-01 21:26:21

The easiest way to let people know that the mobile version isn't yours is to contact Youtubers. Should be especially easy if they think you're the author.

Add some info they can cannibalize into stories for their audiences, and even those who don't care about public domain will trip over themselves to spread the news.

#333 Re: Main Forum » The Door Problem » 2019-02-25 02:18:18

A client side mode mod could make opening and closing doors automatic. Clicking on a tile behind a door would show the player a path through the door, but the server would only know that the player is walking to the tile next to the door.

#335 Re: Main Forum » Live changes to donkeytown threshold for repeat offenders. » 2019-02-22 11:05:19

It should absolutely be a ratio of curses/hours played.

Curses/lives lived to 60. It's too easy to fake playing 24/7.

Also, I still think curses should be relative in some way.
Cursing basically means "I, person X don't want to play with person Y, so I curse person Y."
The goal is to reduce the number of times a player wants to curse another player.
Instead of spawning "bad" players in a donkey town, choose spawn locations based on how many "enemy" players there are nearby.
If there really are "good" players and "griefers", towns will naturally split into regular towns and donkey towns.

#336 Re: News » Update: Temperature Overhaul » 2019-02-18 20:23:15

Having one or two of the biomes be a hellhole or a wasteland is fine.  There's no reason to conserve virtual space, there's no reason why every biome should be hospitable enough to live there.

#337 Re: News » Update: Temperature Overhaul » 2019-02-17 22:47:32

Looks like the temperature system is simpler now, yay!

jasonrohrer wrote:

And finally, the hard part:  biome boundaries.  As the new system is described so far, the old boundary-blending issue is fixed (because only your current biome tile contributes to your heat equation, without blending), but an exploit is still possible:  by jumping back and forth across a boundary, between a hot and cold biome, you could warm yourself up to perfect temperature without fire, clothes, or walls.

So, I added a system for thermal shocks.  This occurs whenever you go from a too-cold biome into a too-hot biome, or vice versa.  Your temperature instantly jumps from the cold side of the scale to the hot side, right to the new biome's target temperature (or from hot to cold, if crossing the other way).  This shock effect is also modulated by clothing.  More and better clothing reduces the magnitude of this shock.  Furthermore, the shock is never allowed to bring you closer to perfect on the other side of the temperature scale than you were before crossing.  So if perfect is 0.5, and you were at 0.3, you will jump to at least 0.7 when you cross into a hot biome, no matter what clothes you are wearing (if you're naked, you might jump all the way up to 0.9, though, so clothing still helps).

Does anyone actually use this exploit?

I'd try to disable this feature for a while and see if it can be thrown away completely.

#338 Re: Main Forum » How should clothes work heat-wise? » 2019-02-13 23:00:27

It would be nice to have no hidden temperature state.  I'm reasonably sure it won't make impossible any of the desired outcomes.  It would be easier to understand body temperature if it was a pure function of the surrounding tiles and their contents.

For example, the doors:

jasonrohrer wrote:

I really wanted open vs closed doors to have a huge impact, for example.

Let's say a tile "has a roof" if there's a wall in 3 tiles or closer.
Let's say a person is "outside" if there's a path shorter than 20 tiles to a tile that does not "have a roof".
Let's say a person is "inside" if she's not "outside".
Give a flat +0.2 heat bonus to everyone who's "inside".

So you need a wall around you to stay warm, but you also can't block yourself off completely.  And being "inside" only 95% of the time is good enough.  Boom, toggleable walls are useful.

A simple model like this will have weird edge cases, but that's fine and even interesting as long as exploiting them is impractical.

#339 Re: Main Forum » How should clothes work heat-wise? » 2019-02-07 22:50:24

I think heat transfer is very counterintuitive IRL, and trying to simulate it should be out of scope.  It's easier to just rebuild the rules from scratch, making them as simple as possible and starting with the desired effects on the economics and player behavior.

But CrazyEddie already said this.
Another important part:

CrazyEddie wrote:

The benefits are small: a player in a prosperous town can get by just fine without clothing because food is abundant

Clothing should be cheaper than making more food, otherwise nothing at all will help.

#340 Re: Main Forum » Why the complex recipe for lettering? » 2019-02-05 09:56:06

jasonrohrer wrote:

This is also the reason, by the way, that there's no inventory in the game.  Stuff gets laid out on the ground as you work on it, just like real life, and the steps you take are fully visible to everyone around you (so your children, and others, can watch and learn, which is impossible in an other crafting game, where all the crafting happens on a menu screen that is invisible to other players)

Wow, makes sense.

Another option would be having recipes made of three parts, e. g. axe + log + deck = damaged_axe + log_half x2 + deck

#341 Re: News » Update: The Miracle of Flight » 2019-02-02 00:06:08

Can we bomb other villages with bears?

#342 Re: Main Forum » So you all think that trading between towns is far off but.. » 2019-01-30 21:57:05

Connecting the towns might help in case one of the towns runs out of food or something.

Trade in the usual sense is impossible without ownership.

#343 Re: Main Forum » Ideas for Radio Communication (Spoilers) » 2019-01-16 21:31:12

You could encode full messages, like in the first post in this thread, but encode them with a Morse-like binary format.

Simple blinks are not much more reliable than binary, you'll still have to repeat the message a few times to make sure the other side will understand.

There'll have to be some meta messages:
1. "I want to send a message"
2. "I'm listening"
3. "Starting a message"
4. "Ending a message"
5. "I got the message"

Some kind of hash sum would be nice too, but probably overly complex.

Meta messages can be pretty long, like eight bits, since you don't have to repeat them often.

#344 Re: Main Forum » Philosophy on finite resources » 2019-01-12 21:41:45

CrazyEddie wrote:

All of this tech is there to be pursued for its own sake, period. It's not efficient. It doesn't need to be.

In the real world, all of this tech is extraordinarily efficient. Technology (and its associated social processes) is the most productive act of creation since the Big Bang and I mean that literally. But that's in the real world. OHOL bears no more similarity to the real world than a stick figure does to a human being. And that's by design, and it's fine. It's a game.

Games have goals, and the goal of OHOL (one of them) is to build these things that Jason has given us the means to build. Why? Just because, that's all.

I strongly disagree.
I believe Jason is trying to simulate parts of the real world, just like any art worth seeing does.
But even if he didn't, in the spirit of the "death of the author" I think this game is about the relationship between human civilization and technology, among other things.
And new tech being worth inventing is really, really important.
In the long term new tech being worthless is a disaster for the game.

#345 Re: Main Forum » Anyone started the apocalypse yet? » 2019-01-03 19:05:10

This absolutely should be true. I like the aesthetics of the current Apocalypse, but those aesthetics demand that ending the Apocalypse requires the same kind of sacrifice that starting it did.

You could interpret it as a single dude with a Molotov rushing in in the middle of a ritual and killing everyone inside including the half-formed abomination.

#346 Re: News » Update: Apocalypse 2.0 » 2018-12-31 12:33:08

I really like the idea of turning the apocalypse monument into a general purpose wish-fulfillment artifact, where causing the apocalypse is just one of the options.

The other option is to add tools for being creative, so that there's something to waste spare resources on. That's what will happen IRL, anyway.

#347 Re: News » Update: Apocalypse 2.0 » 2018-12-29 20:52:02

This is basically The Dark Tower reversed!

And I predict that it'll go really meta really fast.

The_Dark_Tower_teaser_poster.jpg

Here's what's going to happen:

  1. Someone, let's call them the Man in Black, will start building the doomsday device.

  2. They'll eventually get swarmed by people who hate everything vertical.

  3. The Man in Black will find a few pro players, cooperate in Discord and start in a new village, no outsiders allowed.

  4. Other people, aka Gunslingers, will eventually learn about the doomsday device.

  5. Attacking another village is pretty much impossible due to distance. So the Gunslingers will have to repeatedly suicide to teleport.

  6. With careful gating attacking a village by being born there is also impossible, so they'll eventually have to infiltrate the Man in Black's Discord server.

I predict that there'll be way more metagame than before.

I also predict that the first apocalypse will happen in 2018 anyway.

#348 Re: Main Forum » Reviving Dead Towns » 2018-12-27 19:56:28

It would be nice to make it possible and profitable to visit and explore ghost towns.

(See also spider infestations in ruins and more opportunities to explore ruins reddit threads.)

#349 Re: Main Forum » Mini guide: Job? Mom wut do? II » 2018-12-27 19:49:49

That's a long post. It could use some structure, I think.

There are at least two kinds of things to describe here:
1. A job/a workstation, defined as a combination of the items consumed, used as tools, and created.
2. A tech level, defined as a list of basic items that make it possible to have certain jobs at all.

#350 Re: Main Forum » One City Server » 2018-12-27 19:33:15

Hmm, wouldn't it be enough to just set the Eve spawn location to (0, 0)?

All other towns will eventually die out anyway, so changing baby spawn system too seems unnecessarily restrictive.

You could also move the spawn point slowly over time.

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