Lower the Donkey Town Requirement

JonySky · 2019-02-11 13:57:36

Tarr wrote:

So the game should just be a guarding simulator? You expect players who can't even get passed the berry tending part of the game to defend themselves from someone whose only goal is to ruin all the work everyone else has put into the game? The game becomes a tedious game of whack a troll instead of a game about civ building. I've played guard for 12 hours straight and I not only promise you but guarantee it's not enjoyable to basically stand around and watch people. When you're stuck standing around keeping an eye on everyone in the village instead of doing what you planned on doing it becomes more of a job. "Well I can't bake this life because a griefer might start stabbing everyone." People are asking for the threshold to be lowered because even with everyone on the same server it's hard to get eight curses either way.

You have to be cautious and act with agility and speed, that's what I think is failing in the people of this game
I do not like to be a vigilate during 1 hour of play in case a griefer appears ... but if one appears, we must act and that is the problem ...
It seems that it has been assumed and it is assumed that there must be a griefer in all the towns and cities and nobody does anything ... it is as if people think:
Well, another crazy man with a knife / bow that killed all the women in the game ... but I'll keep making cakes ...
that is what is currently happening in OHOL

and meanwhile in the forums threads are created with a multitude of pages asking Jason to lower the requirements of Donkeytown, but nobody is able to create a bow and an arrow and burst the head to the griefer ...
because they must leave their comfort to continue creating cakes, or to be the blacksmith, etc ...

when people see a corpse full of blood on the ground, some ask ... What happened? ... but as soon as people go to their tasks, nobody remembers even to curse ...

bears is another big problem that nobody does anything to avoid ... I was born in a multitude of towns that have been exterminated by bears, and nobody does anything (when I say this means that they do not even move from the village to avoid being bitten)

People have become zombies, robots programmed to do the same thing over and over again without reasoning!

Let's face it, the mechanics of the curses only serve (more or less) for future plays of the Griefer, but meanwhile the Griefer is still living among us ... or we act or we extinguish ourselves at the hands of an idiot

and remember that the griefers will ALWAYS be in the games, although we lower the requirements to send them to Donkeytown.

besides the murderers are easy to detect, but there are many ways to kill an entire civilization, without the need to hold a knife ... and almost all the ways to kill a people happen for the same reason, because people are asleep and he does not realize the real problems

in the same way that when you have many children in an early stage, that lineage dies due to famine, this is another clear example that people are asleep and do NOTHING to avoid it ... they will continue to be born children and take care of them even if only There are 3 bushes of berries throughout the camp

a simple question ??, who of those who are reading this have created a hospital sometime ?? who have created pads and needle thread to sew wounds and place them in a safe place and within reach of all to avoid injuries? and more important ... who have seen dirty pads on the floor and have dedicated themselves to cleaning them or creating more pads ??

curiously this is a task that I do in almost all big cities, because nobody does it ... everyone is doing other tasks "more important" but when the serial killer arrives ... you have to create a new post in the forum and ask Jason to review the curses ...

Last edited by JonySky (2019-02-11 14:19:48)

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-02-11 15:10:22

JonySky wrote:

pein wrote:
cursing for me is like saying that i am weaker than the other player, if you are annoyed by something, if you face problems, you either solve it or let it go. there is a bear in town? get arrows, kill it. there is a griefer in town? kill it.
+1
I'm tired of seeing people in these forums write stories about serial killers and read that nobody does anything to avoid it

OK, seriously!

How many times do I have to tell you I'm a slow clicker?
It doesn't matter that Steam tells me I've played over 500 hours, and that's not counting my growing AWBZ time.
I know from HARD experience that I can't out run or outplay the majority of griefers. I am weaker than the other player, but so what??? I still deserve to play a game I enjoy!

And there are other ways I am stronger...
I can rally a town against them.
I can talk to others about suspicious behavior, while also making them laugh.
I can make it so that the minute the griefer crosses my line they get ten curses, and our local knife wielders are there to take care of the threat. If that knife wielder is me, so be it. If it's someone else, all the better, because I suck at clicking them the right way, even during the cooldown!

The fact that it's hard for you to rally a posse and curse a griefer doesn't mean it isn't a useful thing to do. Just like the fact that I can't manage to stab another player faster than they stab me doesn't mean it isn't useful for griefers to be stabbed. The game is better if we do BOTH.

But I'm better at wielding the curse system than I am at wielding the knives. And the majority of OHOL casual gamers are more like me.

But my tool needs a little more oomph to it. Because, it doesn't work if I'm younger than the griefer, and it doesn't work if I'm in a small camp.

And we don't have serial killers, we have serial griefers. And the current system of stabs and weak curses is just teaching them to be sneakier. And once they are the only players left on the public server - you won't be able to stab them all.

hmrka · 2019-02-11 15:42:40

Tarr wrote:

When you're stuck standing around keeping an eye on everyone in the village instead of doing what you planned on doing it becomes more of a job. "Well I can't bake this life because a griefer might start stabbing everyone."

It rlly sucks. I had a situation like this, except It just slowed me when making a diesel engine. newbs don't really know how to spot a griefer so I'm mostly the only person who cares enough to get rid of him.

Tarr wrote:

People are asking for the threshold to be lowered because even with everyone on the same server it's hard to get eight curses either way.
When it takes an hour of you running around yelling curse X to rack up enough people cursing are you having fun? Because I'm not. Yeah I might send that guy away for an hour of two but it costs me my whole life to secure making sure they get cursed out so in the end we've now both wasted an hour.

Some people either didn't wanna "waste" their curse, or are too dumb to use it correctly - like spelling just his first name without surname and cursing a random person...
It's tiring to keep telling everyone "X is a griefer. curse X", and then explaining to them why... Even If they saw him grief they still kept asking. Sending someone into donkey town almost always takes me 2 lives. Suprisingly, the two griefers I got most curses on both weren't involved in directly killing others. One was a bear lurer, was hiding pies and smith stuff too. And the second was a plane stealer.

Also

BlueDiamondAvatar wrote:

JonySky wrote:
pein wrote:
cursing for me is like saying that i am weaker than the other player, if you are annoyed by something, if you face problems, you either solve it or let it go. there is a bear in town? get arrows, kill it. there is a griefer in town? kill it.
+1
I'm tired of seeing people in these forums write stories about serial killers and read that nobody does anything to avoid it
OK, seriously!
How many times do I have to tell you I'm a slow clicker?
It doesn't matter that Steam tells me I've played over 500 hours, and that's not counting my growing AWBZ time.
I know from HARD experience that I can't out run or outplay the majority of griefers. I am weaker than the other player, but so what??? I still deserve to play a game I enjoy!
And there are other ways I am stronger...
I can rally a town against them.
I can talk to others about suspicious behavior, while also making them laugh.
I can make it so that the minute the griefer crosses my line they get ten curses, and our local knife wielders are there to take care of the threat. If that knife wielder is me, so be it. If it's someone else, all the better, because I suck at clicking them the right way, even during the cooldown!
The fact that it's hard for you to rally a posse and curse a griefer doesn't mean it isn't a useful thing to do. Just like the fact that I can't manage to stab another player faster than they stab me doesn't mean it isn't useful for griefers to be stabbed. The game is better if we do BOTH.
But I'm better at wielding the curse system than I am at wielding the knives. And the majority of OHOL casual gamers are more like me.

Well said Blue!!! I feel the same way!!! I'd like to think my pvp skills in ohol are about average but I still occasionally get stabbed/shot... However griefers from steam are much easier to kill, in my experience.

ryanb · 2019-02-11 15:55:11

Can someone use twinning to avoid donkey town? Does it just depend on the curse status of the host?

I think if any one of the twins are in donkey town then that is where it should spawn them.

austin_beale · 2019-02-11 16:39:33

I've been sent to donkey town twice now for some bull shit...
Thats why i don't curse and encourage players to stop cursing...
even if someone is killing they are just playing a game and trying to have fun, why punish them for it?

The person standing around for 20 min trying to get people to curse one person, rather than just fixing what was griefed, deserves to be cursed or better yet killed.

dumb kid: curse bob therman he stole the axe!!
me: go collect iron and make another axe
dumb kid: how do i do that?
me: *murders kid

Tarr · 2019-02-11 17:18:19

ryanb wrote:

Can someone use twinning to avoid donkey town? Does it just depend on the curse status of the host?
I think if any one of the twins are in donkey town then that is where it should spawn them.

No but currently if one twin is lineage banned to a place and the other twin isn't they're treated as not being lineage banned to a line. This means one twin is able to shoot/kill/grief to their hearts desire and keep returning as long as their twin isn't hitting one of the lineage ban triggers. While I use this exploit myself it's clearly not fair to keep something like this around especially if it hurts normal players.

austin_beale wrote:

I've been sent to donkey town twice now for some bull shit...
Thats why i don't curse and encourage players to stop cursing...
even if someone is killing they are just playing a game and trying to have fun, why punish them for it?
The person standing around for 20 min trying to get people to curse one person, rather than just fixing what was griefed, deserves to be cursed or better yet killed.
dumb kid: curse bob therman he stole the axe!!
me: go collect iron and make another axe
dumb kid: how do i do that?
me: *murders kid

nine out of the ten or so airplanes I've either made or helped made at this point have been stolen and either been dumped into the tutorial or actively driven into the wilderness to be left unusable. The only plane not lost was left in a secret hangar and even after jumping through the hoops of making an ancient wall hangar I've had a plane stolen out before. I will 100% of the time ask the people around me to curse anyone stealing these planes as it takes two to three hours to produce a plane and THEN requires a second plane to rescue the first.

I meant someone with your exact attitude "Don't curse just make another plane!" It is by far one of the biggest griefs to waste so much resources/time because you can't keep your hands off something and are so short sighted that listening to someone explain how the plane works for ten seconds is too much of a hassle. I've let people fly the planes I've made when they care to listen how the planes work the problem arises form the 99% of people who don't.

While in your case something rather simple to replace is hidden lost I've had full blown cars/diesel engines/planes purposely left in the wilderness by trolls and you better believe I will sit around trying to get them sent to DT for that kind of bullshit.

Last edited by Tarr (2019-02-11 17:35:48)

JonySky · 2019-02-11 17:35:20

BlueDiamondAvatar does not need to take a knife to eliminate a griefer (although it is the fastest and most effective way)

and I do not say that the current system of curses is useless, but it is not logical that every time we come across a griefer in a game we resort to hardening the requirements of DonkeyTown, but instead we are not able to kill the assassin instantly when is relaxed

I have asked before ... how many of those who are writing in this post, have created a hospital once? to create pads it is not necessary to know how to stab anyone, nor do they require great knowledge of anything ... to clean dirty pads, it is not necessary to be a pro-player, but nobody does it

this simple task causes the killer to kill no one (since the wounded can be healed) and the murderer gives himself away without creating any type of chaos or drama (someone who has skills to kill will end with the life of the griefer)
is effective and solves many problems ... but it requires using the logic and be effective in the tasks we perform

Do you want to make cakes? no problem, make cakes ..
Do you want to make cakes even if the city is full of dirty pads on the floor ?? ... no problem, keep making cakes ...
A griefer has nailed you the knife while making cakes ?? remember the pads are dirty and on the floor, and nobody did anything to fix it ...

austin_beale if you have arrived in Donkey Town 2 times ... surely you deserve to be there !!, I do not care what the motives are, but to send someone to Donkey Town 2 times many curses are required and surely you have been a grain in the ass

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-11 17:40:07

JonySky wrote:

and I do not say that the current system of curses is useless, but it is not logical that every time we come across a griefer in a game we resort to hardening the requirements of DonkeyTown, but instead we are not able to kill the assassin instantly when is relaxed

Cursing and banishing to Donkey Town is the correct response to a griefer. Simply killing them is pointless.

Killing a griefer does not deter them; they consider that part of the game they are playing. It encourages them. They will try harder next time. And killing them simply sends them along to some other town where they will try again right away.

Cursing and banishing takes away their fun, and hopefully encourages them to quit playing.

Tarr · 2019-02-11 17:49:09

JonySky wrote:

BlueDiamondAvatar does not need to take a knife to eliminate a griefer (although it is the fastest and most effective way)
and I do not say that the current system of curses is useless, but it is not logical that every time we come across a griefer in a game we resort to hardening the requirements of DonkeyTown, but instead we are not able to kill the assassin instantly when is relaxed
I have asked before ... how many of those who are writing in this post, have created a hospital once? to create pads it is not necessary to know how to stab anyone, nor do they require great knowledge of anything ... to clean dirty pads, it is not necessary to be a pro-player, but nobody does it
this simple task causes the killer to kill no one (since the wounded can be healed) and the murderer gives himself away without creating any type of chaos or drama (someone who has skills to kill will end with the life of the griefer)
is effective and solves many problems ... but it requires using the logic and be effective in the tasks we perform
Do you want to make cakes? no problem, make cakes ..
Do you want to make cakes even if the city is full of dirty pads on the floor ?? ... no problem, keep making cakes ...
A griefer has nailed you the knife while making cakes ?? remember the pads are dirty and on the floor, and nobody did anything to fix it ...

But that only counts griefers dumb enough to start stabbing people. You do know some have started using snowballs to murder people right? Unhealable, and without murder cooldown as long as they have a backpack they can walk from person to person just spamming people to death. Making/cleaning pads does NOTHING to stop this sort of griefing which is more effective than walking around shooting/stabbing random people.

Not to mention normal weapon murder is by far easier to disrupt than a griefer starting to hide food/killing the sheep/destroying the kilns. A dumb troll is easy to see and when you do run into a serial griefer you're stuck hoping that anyone who is left around has their token. Most players don't seem to understand they can curse people for up to two hours after their deaths so as long as the troll kills enough people they'll get off free anyways.

Then we fall into the issue of if my village kills a griefer suddenly now someone else's village is stuck dealing with the asshat. All I've done is move my problem onto other people who are also just trying to play the game. Is the idea that every single village/camp/Eve is supposed to murder the X amount of griefers on at a moment to lineage ban them all from play? And if so doesn't that seem just a little goofy?

JonySky · 2019-02-11 18:00:50

Crazy Eddie, the problem is that anyone in this game can kill an entire lineage, without being aware of it
Example: a novice mother has many children in an early camp
this mother is a griefer ??? do not! he simply does not know what to do and is dedicated to taking care of his children and eating berries, but with this action he is starving the whole camp
we have to curse her for raising all her children ?? ... we really have to send her to donkeytown ?? I do not think ... but ... what do we do with all their children? these will continue to eat berries until all the food is finished ...

Here we can do several things:
1.- explain to the mother that she does not raise all her children
2.- kidnapping their children and starving them
3.- kill the mother noob
4. - curse the mother noob
5.- make more food (but it takes time)

6.- Do nothing and inevitably your lineage will die of hunger

I invite you to verify for yourself what the people of OHOL do in these situations ... you will be surprised !!
I tell him that people do not do anything! ... he continues to work is his things without concern ...
Sometimes they do not even create new sources of food! They will not even find food for the people who are working as a blacksmith! absolutely nothing!

some will be placing tiles in the desert ...
others will be eating berries at the berry farm ...
Maybe someone has gone to look for iron or is creating new iron tools in the smithy ...
with luck there will be some child placing soil (not looking for new land, but using it) in the berry bushes

That is the reality ... check it!

Dodge · 2019-02-11 18:15:52

JonySky wrote:

Crazy Eddie, the problem is that anyone in this game can kill an entire lineage, without being aware of it
Example: a novice mother has many children in an early camp
this mother is a griefer ??? do not! he simply does not know what to do and is dedicated to taking care of his children and eating berries, but with this action he is starving the whole camp
we have to curse her for raising all her children ?? ... we really have to send her to donkeytown ?? I do not think ... but ... what do we do with all their children? these will continue to eat berries until all the food is finished ...
Here we can do several things:
1.- explain to the mother that she does not raise all her children
2.- kidnapping their children and starving them
3.- kill the mother noob
4. - curse the mother noob
5.- make more food (but it takes time)
6.- Do nothing and inevitably your lineage will die of hunger
I invite you to verify for yourself what the people of OHOL do in these situations ... you will be surprised !!
I tell him that people do not do anything! ... he continues to work is his things without concern ...
Sometimes they do not even create new sources of food! They will not even find food for the people who are working as a blacksmith! absolutely nothing!
some will be placing tiles in the desert ...
others will be eating berries at the berry farm ...
Maybe someone has gone to look for iron or is creating new iron tools in the smithy ...
with luck there will be some child placing soil (not looking for new land, but using it) in the berry bushes
That is the reality ... check it!

There's a difference between griefing on purpose and just being a noob, a noob will learn or you can teach him but without curses a griefer will just respawn over and over again, you kill him in one village doesn't care he will continue in all the following ones until he cicled trough every village and his original ban will be over.

BlueDiamondAvatar · 2019-02-11 19:18:38

JonySky wrote:

BlueDiamondAvatar does not need to take a knife to eliminate a griefer (although it is the fastest and most effective way)

It's the fastest method IF you can out click the person you are fighting. Assume for a second that everytime you try to do this, you lose and get stabbed while the griefer laughs at you.

JonySky wrote:

and I do not say that the current system of curses is useless, but it is not logical that every time we come across a griefer in a game we resort to hardening the requirements of DonkeyTown, but instead we are not able to kill the assassin instantly when is relaxed

Have you read Lu and Bob 101's latest posts on the forum??
We aren't asking for DT to be strengthened in reaction to a single incident. It is in reaction to a growing problem with chronic repetitive griefers ruining the game.

JonySky wrote:

I have asked before ... how many of those who are writing in this post, have created a hospital once? to create pads it is not necessary to know how to stab anyone, nor do they require great knowledge of anything ... to clean dirty pads, it is not necessary to be a pro-player, but nobody does it
This simple task causes the killer to kill no one (since the wounded can be healed) and the murderer gives himself away without creating any type of chaos or drama (someone who has skills to kill will end with the life of the griefer)
is effective and solves many problems ... but it requires using the logic and be effective in the tasks we perform

Yes, I make sterile pads and make sure there's a needle and thread as soon as i am old enough every time I play.
Yes, I make the bow and arrow and teach others how to do it everytime there's a bear or a bow wielding griefer.
Yes, I make sure the weapons are held, or placed visibly.
Yes, I stop, grab the arrow, and ask what the plan is everytime someone picks up a bow, or runs around with it.
I'm pretty sure those are the answers for most of the people posting on this thread.

You aren't talking to the normal casual players here. You are talking to the forum geeks.

Have you not noticed that the griefers dirty the pads or steal the needle and thread? Have you not seen all the people who drop dead of starvation even when the victim is healed? Have you run around trying to feed your family a yum bonus food while they stop everything to figure out how much damage the griefer has done?

The fact that pein (and I was talking to pein on this part...) doesn't think curses are worth typing out is exactly the reason we need to strengthen Donkey Town.

pein · 2019-02-11 19:25:31

well to quote batman: if you kill a killer, you dont reduce the number of killers in the world
i often see this stupid and coward behavior, people dont ask or think, they just stab and curse right away
the other is when they curse me for killing a griefer then they go and eat the food i produced and do nothing
how stupid you need to be to curse the one who fed you all your life? im sorry but i wont let those people alive even if im cursed for it
and thats what bothers me, kills come first, curses after

curses wont solve anything in that life. especially preemptive cursing, framing and convincing others to curse is a bad habit, and people shouldnt let others influence them so easy.
all the time i got problems with someone, its for a reason, now im subjective sometimes, maybe doesnt deserve death, but if his reaction is negative to my actions, more often than not i end up killed/cursed, the camp gets ruined
so more often than not i get rid of shady people as fast as possible
if someone kills another person, i always ask for a reason and tend to accept if sounds right, obviously 2 times "accident" wont cut it, so even at first accident i take away weapons from them, and as long as it answers normally and doesnt try to sneak out of town without saying anything i let them live
i actually was killed by someone who was holding a weapon outside city, he didnt answer and first thing he did is stab me

if i do shady things i totally expect to get killed for it
while some people think they are always right, always righteous, joust and heroic

so stop using curses for any occasion, maybe people kill others for a reason, and this false pattern recognition wont help
if you give a reason to get killed, like cursing him or pissing him off, its totally expected they will try to kill you

tossing the dirty job on others isnt fair, and for doing so i will most likely to curse
you can get away with it when noobs are around, but some of us are higher skilled and respect others for standing up fro themselves
i was revenged by a random player who killed both of my sisters for stabbing me after i stabbed a dumb girl

the majority isnt always right, so know your place, if you cant deal with the so caleld griefers, which sometimes are the higher skilled people who dont let you do whatever, then dont do whatever and dont help people who are fighting for power to use you as their backup squad or suicide bomber, chances are, that those people who ask yo uto curse others, are the real griefers, especially if they dont work, leach on resources and their biggest problem is a player who doesnt even doing anythign wrong at that time

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-11 20:10:32

it's important to remember that murder isn't necessarily griefing, and that PVP violence is allowed in this game for a reason: because it would be a completely unrealistic portrayal of human society without it.

an established city really should need a doctor and a dedicated guard/militia to be safe.

i don't witness that many murders, but in established civs generally a fair amount of people have knifes in their backpacks.

There's no good reason a murderer should be able to kill several people in a decently functioning civ. If you get murdered sometimes that's just the game.

at the same time, non-violent productive players very rarely get cursed. So if I accidentally get a couple here and there killing murderers (which i never have) it isn't a big deal.

I've long thought it would be fun to play as a raider, but there is no real point as pretty much a basket of pies and standing next to some cactuses is enough to survive a whole game lol.

Though, that actually brings up another important point What people are upset with is the murders being seemingly for no reason. If there were possessions worth killing for it would all look different. But, it's so damn easy to walk off with things, and almost every possession you would only want either to kill people or to be a productive player.

catdavis67 · 2019-02-11 20:38:47

I like the idea of the /curse command instead of saying "curse". That would be an excellent change, I hope it gets implemented. :-)

JonySky · 2019-02-11 21:20:12

I do not want to be heavy and believe me that I understand perfectly that you want to lower the requirements for DonkeyTown,
Even if Jason decides to toughen DonkeyT's sentence or lower the requirements, I will applaud the measure.

But what I want to express is that it is very difficult to "clean" the game of this type of people

There will ALWAYS be griefers (unfortunately)
There will ALWAYS be bitter people who need to destroy the fun of other players, and even if we send them to DonkeyT after a few hours
they will be among us again in each town and city (and they will continue trying to ruin our experience)

that's why I think that people should act more in the game, and not in the forums
must react faster in the game, and detect the assassins and idiots of our cities

In many games I see raising abandoned children that are not their own without asking themselves why they have abandoned that child
I see how they raise twins, triplets, etc ... and then they turn out to be serial killers ...
in many plays I see mothers "rabbit" having 20 children in early camps
I see children looking for knives and trying to pick them up from the ground when they still have no age to pick up a weapon
I see people with bows loaded in the middle of the berry fields, doing nothing
I see children picking up essential items and running out of the city
I see many people murdering other murderers without asking because they have killed, what was the reason?

very common situations (unfortunately), but without anyone doing anything about it ...
and that's what I think should change in OHOL

I know there are many ways to harm a population (snowballs, bows, food theft, etc ...)
but if we want to survive we must be able to react quickly as a group

fragilityh14 · 2019-02-11 21:45:13

in the book "Things Fall Apart" it says the Nigerian tribes people would abandon twins in the woods cause they were considered to be evil. Just saying.

I haven't had twins turn out to be evil, but i've had a mom who was an evil twin, and killed the whole family and kept saying i needed to be a slave moving rocks or she would kill me. I ran away with a bowl and was excited to live in the wilds a while then come back to reclaim the camp with a family, but I died of yellow fever

I suppose I should have cursed my mom after running away, being as she told me they killed the whole village.

sdogg2m · 2019-02-12 15:57:58

Based on the posts I have no doubt pein lives to cause trouble in game and I would think Jony as well.

These are precisely the reasons to make positive changes. I would like there to be a possibility for more than 400 players to exist at a given time and be able to continue my lineage.

CrazyEddie · 2019-02-12 17:00:47

pein lives to make his own towns succeed and has a hair trigger towards anyone he thinks is an obstacle to that success, or that annoys him in some way. I applaud his goals and am critical of his methods.

Booklat1 · 2019-02-12 17:13:07

Decrease minimum curse scores and I'll probably never kill a griefer again tbh, not unless absolutely sure no one is around.

I already get cursed for killing naked people with loaded bows inside town and I consider myself pretty stealthy and social skilled inside this game.

Leave cursing as is ffs, in a few hours lines and cities will probably die and we'll rebuild it all again. Unless we're losing megacities to griefing i'm not really concerned about it as the game is rght now.

JonySky · 2019-02-12 18:00:42

this is what I mean ... retouching the system of curses will not solve the number of idiots

this retouching of number of curses will only cause that we will pay all .. (the good ones and the bad ones)

If the people who kill the griefers and murderers end up in DonkeyTown, I do not want to imagine the nightmares and dramas that are going to come in the cities!

Dodge · 2019-02-12 18:23:31

JonySky wrote:

this is what I mean ... retouching the system of curses will not solve the number of idiots
this retouching of number of curses will only cause that we will pay all .. (the good ones and the bad ones)
If the people who kill the griefers and murderers end up in DonkeyTown, I do not want to imagine the nightmares and dramas that are going to come in the cities!

The idea is that real griefers will naturally rack up more curses than people killing the griefers and getting cursed for it, so even if you will get send more in donkey town with a lower treshold, you will only spend 30 minutes theres since your ratio will be good.

But a recurring griefer, someone who griefs every life will have a much worse ratio and will spent a lot more time there maybe 2-3 hours each stay depending on the ratio

So even if you get cursed by mistake your ratio will still remain good, maybe those who have a very low ratio could have a higher treshold, now that i think about it, it could be like this:

If you have a bad ratio number of curses/hours played then only 4 curses will send you to donkey town for about 1-2 hours but if you have a good ratio then it will take 8 curses to send you there

TLDR Time spent in donkey town and the amount of curses needed to be sent there should depend on a ratio number of curses/hours played

So the non griefers will require 8 curses to get sent to DT and maybe spend only 30 minutes - 1 hour and the players that heavily grief will only require 4 curses and spend 2-3 hours there.

This way it wouldn't punish the players killing griefers and getting cursed for it while at the same time punishing those who grief every life.

Léonard · 2019-02-12 19:30:48

Booklat1 wrote:

Decrease minimum curse scores and I'll probably never kill a griefer again tbh, not unless absolutely sure no one is around.
I already get cursed for killing naked people with loaded bows inside town and I consider myself pretty stealthy and social skilled inside this game.

And this is why people who say "weapons were implemented specifically to deal with griefers" are completely wrong.
I've said this already and I'll say it again: knives (or snowballs, or any other killing mechanic) are as much a problem solver as they are a problem themselves.
Knives are used by griefers as much as they're used against them. It doesn't solve much of anything.
At most you can argue that it lineage bans the griefer and removes him from the town but that's only a short term solution.
As Tarr already pointed out, that in fact encourages griefers and only makes them spawn in a different town which they can in turn grief.
You're basically playing the game the griefers want you to play.

This is not how you deal with griefers. This is not how you solve the problem.
Cursing is much more different.
You may argue that my point applies there too, but that is simply not the case. Why? Because it is a power everyone has.
As such, the overwhelming majority who want to play peacefully will crush the minority of griefers who want to just go on a killing spree.
This is how you properly deal with griefers.

Why do people insist SO MUCH on killing the griefers instead of using the right tool to deal with them? Do you feel like a hero or something?

Now, about this topic. The curse system has been discussed to great lengths before already.
The issue that's been opened on github suggests a much more sensible solution: lowering the threshold given the lifetime curses.
Now, of course, this still leaves the problem of people getting unjustly cursed being sent to donkey town as well.
People seem to be hellbent on the fact that this HAS to happen and that there is NO solution for some reason.

I already suggested something before: downgrade the lifetime curse score to something like the real time score itself, but much slower and on a much more general scale.
Like count the lifetime curses but decrease them by say two every months or something like that. That way people who play since a while and have accumulated unjust curses aren't put at risk.
Something like what Dodge suggested could work even better if you do it right: a ratio of playtime/total number of curses.
What's important to understand is that the problem we're trying to solve with this kind of thing is to express how bad someone is in some sort of metric in order to identify the griefers more sensibly.
It's basically trying to measure how bad someone is. A metric for griefing.
Once you have such a thing, the idea is to use it to calculate a threshold per person.

In this way, you will effectively make the curse system "target" the griefers.
People who do nothing wrong and get the occasional curse by a griefer or toxic roleplayer or whatever would have nothing to worry about as ideally their ratio/lifetime score/whatever metric is chosen won't target them.
People who actually are griefers and have any sort of habit of doing it will be "noticed" and "targeted" by this metric and will subsequently have a reduced threshold given how severe the measure is.
This way, you solve the problem of people purposely avoiding the threshold to not spend a single second in donkey town because as they keep doing it, the measure will get stronger and stronger and will eventually make them spend time in DT for as low as a single curse (if they're that bad).

People who do nothing wrong don't spend time in donkey town.
People who do, even while trying to avoid the threshold, get deported.

The implications are great.
If people learned that cursing is the superior tool over killing against griefers this would work.
It would be superior in every way:

It is consistant, no worry of failing your knife strike, the curse system will always do its job the way it was designed to do it.
It is sensible, people have a measure determining how bad they are and the curse system will scale along that. Meaner punishment for meaner people (who grief more often).
Same point as above but applied to the opposite case: you don't have to worry about being unjustly sent to DT if you're a model player as your threshold will not be decreased.

How this would ideally get used is good as well:
See a sketchy guy holding a bow in the middle of the berry field? Curse him (and possibly talk about it to other people, I mean that's obvious, be smart).
If he is a griefer for sure then you can be certain that your token will matter. Let's say his threshold is calculated at 2 or 3. You're already halfway or a third of the way to dealing with him effectively.
If he is not a griefer and just a noob who doesn't know what he's doing, then he has much less to worry about as his threshold is still up there at 7 or 8. Just tell him that it's wrong and dangerous, teach him proper uses of the bow and everyone is happy.

This goes both ways as well, if you get cursed, be smart, don't be an idiot.
If you got cursed, there is very likely a reason. Someone suspects you to be a griefer or considers you a troll/asshole/whatever.
Talk about it. Maybe, just maybe, you're not an all just god who does nothing wrong ever. Maybe you genuinely did something wrong.
Put yourself in question. Be modest. Maybe you can improve the situation. Talk to the other person, ask them about it. "What did I do wrong?". "Sorry, I didn't mean to be an asshole to you.".
If you determine from the discussion that they are in fact a troll, then by all means, curse them back.
If you know you're not a shady player and you have nothing to be guilty about, you can assume your threshold is high and that you have nothing to worry about.
If the other guy is a troll, your curse will definitely count.

I've seen people who will kill you on sight if you curse them. To me it's a clear sign they're idiots and I'm glad I cursed them in the first place.
Get off your high horse for a second buddy, nobody is all just and perfect. No one is god.
And don't get me wrong, I don't curse for any and everything. When I do such a thing I'm 100% certain they were dishonest in some way and there they are, chasing you with a knife. Smart.
And I've done the opposite as well. I've told people ingame a couple times already "go ahead, curse me if you think I'm an asshole". I know I'm honest and well meaning enough that I have nothing to worry about.

And of course, there are other ways in which the curse system needs to be improved and I agree on that.
Twins should both get the curse (careful who you pick as a friend obviously, again, be smart).
Twins shouldn't be able to avoid lineage bans.

I don't think we need to remove the cursing token from twins however.
If the curse system is improved in the ways I described above, then that would be unjust and unnecessary.
People who are honest and well-meaning twins can't curse anymore.
The system already takes into account people abusing the system (remember, the minority against the majority) so why bother with removing twin's curses.
If they're trying to victimize someone innocent, then that person still has a high threshold (which originally was high for this very purpose) and shouldn't worry about it.

Younger people need to be able to use this as a command as someone already pointed out.
I noticed that when you type a command in the chat as a baby, the character limit suddenly vanishes. You can type "/PING" even if you're below a year old.
This indicates that Jason is well aware of this problem. Perhaps the curse is limited in this way intentionally.
I suspect the goal is to prevent babies from cursing their mothers who may have very valid reason not to take care of them.
Even then, people who are past the age of picking up things should still be able to curse griefers.
You can expect their mother or someone else took care of them and that this problem is out of the way at this point.
The fact that you can't curse certain people because they have a long name is ridiculous.
Something like allowing it as a command while giving a notification on the top of your head sounds like a very good suggestion.

Booklat1 · 2019-02-12 20:31:01

Léonard wrote:

Booklat1 wrote:
Decrease minimum curse scores and I'll probably never kill a griefer again tbh, not unless absolutely sure no one is around.
I already get cursed for killing naked people with loaded bows inside town and I consider myself pretty stealthy and social skilled inside this game.
And this is why people who say "weapons were implemented specifically to deal with griefers" are completely wrong.
I've said this already and I'll say it again: knives (or snowballs, or any other killing mechanic) are as much a problem solver as they are a problem themselves.

That was actually the reason Jason implemented killing, you saying it already and saying it again won't bend reality.

Léonard · 2019-02-12 20:34:12

The point is that it's not an effective way to do it.
Prove to me that knives are used more to kill griefers than they are being used by griefers.
I'll be waiting.

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