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jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2017-02-13

Posts: 4,805

Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

I have a list of 41,000 words broken down by syllables from here:
http://www.delphiforfun.org/programs/Syllables.htm

I cleaned this list up a bit manually.

There are 8900 unique syllables in this list.  That's too many to show here, but here are the most frequently occurring syllables:

   3112 i
   3052 er
   2326 ing
   2201 a
   1658 ly
   1393 re
   1242 o
   1188 in
   1042 un
    989 y
    882 ed
    867 e
    813 ble
    792 al
    762 tion
    727 de
    716 ter
    683 ness
    625 ti
    619 en
    619 con
    613 u
    591 est
    582 ty
    568 ic
    542 an
    520 di
    435 ri
    417 ex
    401 li
    391 per
    381 ta
    379 to
    369 ver
    365 tor
    359 ry
    349 man
    349 dis
    339 ma
    338 ni
    332 ra
    328 la
    324 ca
    313 im
    300 cal
 

Analyzing the full list of 8900 syllables produces these 272 consonant clusters, sorted by frequency of occurrence in the list:

  16674 r
  14787 n
  13272 t
  12312 l
   9915 d
   9636 s
   8394 c
   8172 m
   5967 p
   4857 b
   3960 g
   3480 f
   3463 v
   3357 ng
   2425 st
   2268 h
   2184 w
   1376 ss
   1361 bl
   1272 nt
   1233 sh
   1182 k
   1100 tr
   1069 ch
   1044 pr
    997 z
    928 th
    905 ck
    888 x
    742 nd
    689 gr
    682 j
    619 pl
    619 cr
    606 br
    586 ll
    550 cl
    523 q
    509 fl
    490 sp
    482 nc
    472 ph
    438 rd
    399 dr
    368 rt
    362 fr
    342 gl
    339 sm
    315 sc
    289 rs
    277 rn
    260 str
    258 sl
    246 ct
    245 ght
    237 nk
    234 ld
    216 ns
    213 rk
    199 mp
    198 wh
    192 tch
    186 sk
    182 rm
    170 dg
    167 sw
    158 lt
    157 wn
    144 sn
    141 scr
    140 tl
    140 dl
    139 ff
    135 gh
    129 ft
    110 wr
    108 rg
    103 gn
    101 nch
    100 lk
     98 thr
     91 pt
     89 ps
     89 kn
     78 tt
     77 sq
     73 rv
     70 rth
     70 cs
     68 mb
     65 rch
     65 lv
     64 rl
     63 tw
     62 ts
     57 rh
     56 spr
     56 rc
     53 wl
     47 lm
     46 ws
     46 rb
     45 ls
     45 chr
     44 sch
     44 rr
     43 lf
     41 shr
     37 rp
     37 ms
     35 pp
     35 ngs
     33 nn
     32 spl
     31 zl
     30 nth
     27 sph
     27 lp
     27 kl
     27 ds
     25 rst
     25 mpt
     23 lth
     21 gg
     20 wk
     20 mn
     19 zz
     19 wd
     19 nx
     19 nds
     18 tz
     18 cks
     17 rf
     16 phr
     15 rds
     15 kr
     14 nct
     14 bt
     13 rts
     13 lg
     13 dd
     13 chl
     11 nts
     11 mm
     11 dw
     11 dh
     10 rsh
     10 rks
     10 ngth
     10 kh
     10 gs
      9 nks
      9 lls
      9 lch
      8 wz
      8 hn
      8 bs
      7 sth
      7 rld
      7 phl
      7 mps
      6 xt
      6 rtz
      6 ntz
      6 ghts
      6 cz
      5 wns
      5 tts
      5 rnt
      5 mph
      5 lms
      5 lb
      5 dth
      4 wth
      4 vr
      4 thw
      4 rrh
      4 rq
      4 rns
      4 rms
      4 rgh
      4 hm
      4 gm
      4 ffs
      4 bb
      3 thm
      3 sv
      3 scl
      3 schl
      3 rps
      3 pn
      3 nz
      3 ltz
      3 lsh
      3 ln
      3 ks
      3 hs
      3 hr
      3 hl
      3 fts
      2 wp
      2 vt
      2 tsch
      2 sz
      2 schn
      2 schm
      2 rct
      2 ngst
      2 mt
      2 lts
      2 lft
      2 kw
      2 hns
      2 fs
      2 dst
      2 cht
      2 bh
      1 zw
      1 xth
      1 wt
      1 wnst
      1 wls
      1 ttn
      1 sts
      1 sf
      1 schw
      1 rz
      1 rw
      1 rsts
      1 rscht
      1 rsch
      1 rpt
      1 rmth
      1 rgn
      1 rcs
      1 rck
      1 rbs
      1 pth
      1 psh
      1 phs
      1 pf
      1 nstr
      1 nst
      1 nq
      1 nns
      1 nkh
      1 nh
      1 ndth
      1 ncts
      1 mnd
      1 mbs
      1 lq
      1 lpt
      1 lph
      1 lfth
      1 lfs
      1 ldt
      1 lds
      1 lct
      1 lc
      1 kj
      1 ht
      1 ghth
      1 fth
      1 fj
      1 dz
      1 dn
      1 dj
      1 dds
      1 cts
      1 chs
      1 bw

And here are the 72 vowel clusters:

  32701 e
  23537 i
  21963 a
  14229 o
   8475 u
   5736 y
   1587 ou
   1385 ea
   1050 io
    893 oo
    865 ee
    810 ie
    756 ai
    451 au
    384 ay
    352 ui
    323 ue
    320 oa
    302 oi
    287 ia
    248 ua
    192 ei
    163 ey
    113 oy
    102 eu
     94 iou
     90 oe
     77 ae
     58 ya
     42 eye
     37 eau
     34 eo
     30 yo
     30 ye
     24 uo
     17 eou
     15 yea
     14 you
     14 uy
     14 uea
     11 aye
     10 yu
     10 uee
      9 ieu
      9 aa
      8 uai
      7 iu
      6 yi
      6 uoi
      4 uoy
      3 yie
      3 ooe
      3 eoi
      3 ayo
      3 ao
      2 yeu
      2 yeo
      2 uu
      2 uey
      2 ueu
      2 uay
      2 oye
      2 oua
      2 oeu
      1 uie
      1 ueue
      1 oui
      1 oue
      1 iao
      1 aue
      1 aou
      1 aie

This seems pretty comprehensive.  I'm posting this here in part because such lists don't seem to exist anywhere online that I could find easily.

Also for reference, here's the command-line calls to do this analysis:

Print syllables, sorted by number of occurrences:

grep "=" Syllables.txt | sed -e "s/.*=//" | sed -e "s/-/\n/g" | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn


Print consonant clusters, sorted for number of occurrences:

grep "=" Syllables.txt | sed -e "s/.*=//" | sed -e "s/-/\n/g" | sed -e "s/[aeiouy]/\n/g" | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn


Print vowel clusters, sorted for number of occurrences:

grep "=" Syllables.txt | sed -e "s/.*=//" | sed -e "s/-/\n/g" | sed -e "s/[^aeiouy]/\n/g" | sort | uniq -c | sort -rn

jinbaili83

Member

Registered: 2018-06-15

Posts: 221

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

Are you planing on confounding our conosants and vowels so we can't talk with other families? If so, im happy it is more elaborate way than just using Cesar cipher to code our speach.

Last edited by jinbaili83 (2019-05-08 19:38:47)

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2017-02-13

Posts: 4,805

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

A sample:

Hello good sir!  Do you have some sugar that I could borrow?

Becomes:

Dryerence planed gait!  Mite shrine gna rai caquesial dawn Ice claimed dussot?

Amon

Member

From: Under your bed

Registered: 2019-02-17

Posts: 781

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

That's genuinely cool! And it's not just gimmerish it's actually pronounceable.
But. Are there any loopholes?

Last edited by Amon (2019-05-08 20:34:55)

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Left4twenty

Member

Registered: 2018-03-09

Posts: 116

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

How would this be affected if speaking over a radio?

Last edited by Left4twenty (2019-05-08 20:38:42)

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Ari-ori-412

Member

From: Virginia

Registered: 2019-04-12

Posts: 73

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

How would this be affected if speaking over a radio?

probably the same?

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Guppy

Member

Registered: 2019-03-14

Posts: 202

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

Will there be ways to talk to other families? Like for example crafting a dictionary and everyone that picked that up will understand the family that crafted it?

jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2017-02-13

Posts: 4,805

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

Opening paragraph from a very famous book:

insur stru sponge cetfrisk aes dawn viled nounce sort insur ize tia insur ize strongtau dawn dec izejust stru mear eb stru cerpt fine stru legavs. insur stru chem aes stru mear hinge mule bractgild eb sphincnouak, nonce eb cane insur stru gem, eb stru wacer clew smash eb fetchclave quotestead eb science insur stru givnanon. bosk stan quette stru tia eb limp stru poser eb stru puk sonde bers hourshur stru triv aes stru nuses. stru sions aes stru nuses hy mule puktey eb stru triv luk alstey dawn viled eb nounce jew stru bosk skelerg izeroug stru poser eb stru puk rudeboost eb triv, hail quette stru hi, cogerg eb stru viardreads skelerg eb icedoldsnail stru poser qua eb cane ebbnoon dried stru triv.

voy178

Member

Registered: 2018-08-18

Posts: 290

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

So how will we trade again?

Twisted

Member

Registered: 2018-10-12

Posts: 663

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

Opening paragraph from a very famous book:

insur stru sponge cetfrisk aes dawn viled nounce sort insur ize tia insur ize strongtau dawn dec izejust stru mear eb stru cerpt fine stru legavs. insur stru chem aes stru mear hinge mule bractgild eb sphincnouak, nonce eb cane insur stru gem, eb stru wacer clew smash eb fetchclave quotestead eb science insur stru givnanon. bosk stan quette stru tia eb limp stru poser eb stru puk sonde bers hourshur stru triv aes stru nuses. stru sions aes stru nuses hy mule puktey eb stru triv luk alstey dawn viled eb nounce jew stru bosk skelerg izeroug stru poser eb stru puk rudeboost eb triv, hail quette stru hi, cogerg eb stru viardreads skelerg eb icedoldsnail stru poser qua eb cane ebbnoon dried stru triv.

I take it this means you gave up on the weapon idea?

Bob 101

Member

Registered: 2019-02-05

Posts: 313

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

I'd love of you could use writing to teach your language.

voy178

Member

Registered: 2018-08-18

Posts: 290

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

If this is going to be a thing I'd like the ability to use my hands to point without having to dance into objects.

Left4twenty

Member

Registered: 2018-03-09

Posts: 116

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

What about names?  Names are usually preserved across languages.  Though the spelling may changed to fit the new dialects alphabet and means of reaching the same syllables, the syllables are largely maintained.  If our speech bubbles are meant to be speech and not writing, names should be preserved somehow

Last edited by Left4twenty (2019-05-08 22:10:34)

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Mother loves you.

honikker

Member

Registered: 2019-02-16

Posts: 33

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

So how will we trade again?

I'd suggest trade language, but I don't know how that would even be implemented 'cause then there'd have to be your language, their language, and a third language used for trading which would defeat the point of the language barrier.

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Peaches

Member

Registered: 2019-04-04

Posts: 62

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

Perhaps allow the word for "trade" to come out unaffected?

The gibberish comes out as intended, but the word "trade" shows up just fine to show possible intention. Then they could hold the item they'd like to trade and emote /joy or /hmph or whatever to indicate interest in whatever gets offered.

Last edited by Peaches (2019-05-09 07:49:46)

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Potjeh

Member

Registered: 2018-03-08

Posts: 469

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

This is gonna suck.

Tarr

Banned

Registered: 2018-03-31

Posts: 1,596

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

This is gonna suck.

I think it's worth a wait and see approach on this one. At the very worst people will start just talking about stuff in discord instead of trying to communicate in game. "Anyone in bell town Jim Jones is griefing, make sure to tell everyone else and stab him" and the game becomes more internally anti-social. If it's implemented in a way where we slowly learn from each other it would be a lot more interesting than just being blocked from talking to anyone outside the family what so ever.

It adds a level of separation between families which is something Jason wants but I don't think it will stop communal groups working together based on whether or not they can understand each other. I've seen people speak stuff other than English in game before and I didn't run over and murder them for speaking gibberish so I doubt this will be any different in that case.

At best this becomes the stepping stone to dads and marriages and other things people have begged for and at worst it's a gimmick that fails like fences.

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jasonrohrer

Administrator

Registered: 2017-02-13

Posts: 4,805

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

A better mapping:

in the late summer of that year we lived in a house in a village that looked across the river and the plain to the mountains in the bed of the river there were pebbles and boulders dry and white in the sun and the water was clear and swiftly moving and blue in the channels troops went by the house and down the road and the dust they raised powdered the leaves of the trees the trunks of the trees too were dusty and the leaves fell early that year and we saw the troops marching along the road and the dust rising and leaves stirred by the breeze falling and the soldiers marching and afterward the road bare and white except for the leaves

uug sho wueve ruinfov uyd shuez vuoyv lo wibb uug ou tsuysp uug ou yimbuehs shuez wyegue oubserl sho siwov ourb sho skuieg ge sho zuypfuieme uug sho sqof uyd sho siwov shosh losh cobllsh ourb squykmorg klyo ourb wrive uug sho ruig ourb sho luezov luep thruoyv ourb stiggnyo zewink ourb bwa uug sho spluenboht zwyenx lork sqyo sho tsuysp ourb nesz sho seuf ourb sho nuiwp shyie suiersh cetnornt sho wuoybe uyd sho zweip sho zwuinch uyd sho zweip gye losh nuithyo ourb sho wuoybe qoks oiptyo shuez vuoyv ourb lo ruex sho zwyenx zuerdnink ourenk sho seuf ourb sho nuiwp simink ourb wuoybe swithed sqyo sho shreizz quembink ourb sho rekmiurg zuerdnink ourb oudworzuern sho seuf squesh ourb wrive oozdorc qev sho wuoybe

Shorter and more relevant:

How much water is left in the well?

Tsex zuiff luezov uup wofe uug sho lomb?

Booklat1

Member

Registered: 2018-07-21

Posts: 1,062

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

This is gonna suck.

fences 2.0. Gimmick over function is taking away all my interest in this game

We get one great update and come right back to this kinda stuff. This quest for depth is turning the game in what it was becoming pre-steam, a mesh of useless features. Photographs as a way to increase investiment in a life/line? Fences as a way to push trade? We got crowns and clutter instead.

People won't war or trade, they'll discord. I bet that'll make the game much more immersive.

Worst part is that it'll rarely matter and when it does it'll confuse less invested players.

Left4twenty

Member

Registered: 2018-03-09

Posts: 116

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

So if you figure out what the unrelated tribes word for "rock" is, lets say its "bo"  you know this through the context of them pointing at a rock and saying "bo".  You like communication and are a facilitative soul so next time you need a rock you ask for the "give bo". Meanwhile even though you know youre speakig their language, they hear "jugo ri"  because this language confounding only works on the surface

Last edited by Left4twenty (2019-05-09 23:29:34)

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Mother loves you.

Starknight_One

Member

Registered: 2018-10-15

Posts: 347

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

So how will we trade again?

I'd suggest trade language, but I don't know how that would even be implemented 'cause then there'd have to be your language, their language, and a third language used for trading which would defeat the point of the language barrier.

Trade languages are usually a pidgin, made up of words from several other languages. The idea is to communicate, 'I'll give you 3 of these for 5 of those', and you don't need a large vocabulary for that.

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Potjeh

Member

Registered: 2018-03-08

Posts: 469

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

Yeah I think all this will accomplish is making Discord mandatory. Anyone willing to write a plugin that automatically puts people in same area into the same channel?

Twisted

Member

Registered: 2018-10-12

Posts: 663

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

Eh, the langage processing code is cool but this sounds like it's going to be either a very dull update, or an update that makes the game worse.

I'm happy to be proven wrong though.

EDIT: After actually playing the update for two lives I'm happy to say I was wrong. I really enjoy the fact that different families speak different languages, it makes for interesting gameplay. Great update, 10/10.

Last edited by Twisted (2019-05-14 15:10:25)

Left4twenty

Member

Registered: 2018-03-09

Posts: 116

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

How about that universally translated sign?  Sure is lucky everyone has the same alphabet and letter sequence to written word despite spoken languages being different

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futurebird

Member

Registered: 2019-02-20

Posts: 1,553

Re: Consonant and vowel clusters in the English language

*wedding bells*
*tosses rice*
*coughs loudly*

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